First Aid Use Records vs. Accident Records

C

crdeskins

#21
Hi all, This is my first post so be patient with me...please.

Regarding FA Box availability on site for personnel use, this does not mean that employees have free and unrestricted access to medical treatment in case of FA need. What it does mean is that the FA equipment be provided for use in FA need.

The requirement for recording FA falls under incident reporting as will every incident or accident. If an employee has an illness or injury that requires FA treatment it should be widely known that this is OK, but for HSSE to satisfactorily perform their duty in any incident investigation including FA treatments every employee needs to know that they must report all incidents.

In my past experience, I have discussed this with every employee. This recording actually is one of their benefits and not to be construed as a punishable offense. What I mean here is that the employee needs to know that if they follow through with recording FA treatments and their condition worsens such as infection setting in or something, the record is there of the FA to support their need for additional treatment above FA. It also benefits employees because any FA is just an indicator that something may be wrong or incomplete in regards to work place safety and requires investigation and possible corrective action, i.e. a different type of machine guard, or PPE change, or I have even seen shop supervisors threaten employees to suck up all FA treatments so they will look good.

In each of these cases, by not reporting all FA treatments each employee is shorting your company, HSSE Department and every other employee of the opportunity to correct a problem or at least be aware of situations that could cause more serious injury down the road.

My suggestion is that all FA kits be kept under sign in logs by management over supervisor level. In any case where an employee requires FA this individual will be aware of the need and can request a FA report from the area supervisor over the employee. This can be a short check sheet providing individual ID, if it was an injury requiring FA or an illness non work related such as head ache, bandage change for sanitation, etc...

Hope this helps.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#22
Re: First Aid use records Vs Accident records

Hi

I have audited and assessed many manufacturing units in India and in the east, I have not come across even one unit keeping all items that are required by the Factories Act in the First Aid Box; of course, this can be considered as violation of the Factories Act in India. But the reality is that in general the box contains some basic aids for cuts (tincture iodine), burns (burnol) and bruises (dettol, band-aid, cotton, bandage etc.); I am speaking about the cases that I have come across. It is possible that there are units that comply with the law; in my assessment they are a few.

As for accessibility, I have seen in many cases that these boxes are kept in the shop-floor Manager's/Supervisor's room and are easily accessible when needed and at the same time pilferage is avoided. It is necessary that these boxes are available at a reasonable distance from the potential accident/incident site; the approximate distance of location of the first-aid box to my knowledge is less than 50 m from any potential accident/incident spot.

With kind regards,

Ramakrishnan
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#23
Re: First Aid use records Vs Accident records

As long as I adopt paper knife as the tool and manual process my method, small cause cuts would happen. I would provide first aid and ensure proper and timely care.
Why must I consider all such cuts as incidents and record them and do all analysis whatever and then decide that I will not change the process and increase the cost of the product since the customer demands continuous cost reduction and same time expect suppliers to have all the global certifications. Do I have the freedom to decide what will be a recordable incident and still comply to the OHSAS 18001 ... ?
 
S

samsung

#24
Re: First Aid use records Vs Accident records

As long as I adopt paper knife as the tool and manual process my method, small cause cuts would happen. I would provide first aid and ensure proper and timely care.
Why must I consider all such cuts as incidents and record them and do all analysis whatever and then decide that I will not change the process and increase the cost of the product since the customer demands continuous cost reduction and same time expect suppliers to have all the global certifications. Do I have the freedom to decide what will be a recordable incident and still comply to the OHSAS 18001 ... ?
Answer to your last question is certainly 'No' since the governing laws don't permit anyone to decide what is and isn't a reportable/ recordable accident. They have already defined the minimum criteria for reporting/ recording of workplace accidents. Whatever falling outside of their control sphere, can be set to be moulded in the desired shape.

Minor incidents such as knife cuts are incidents because OHSAS says so. But you can decide whether to record them or not, whether to investigate and take actions or not, based on your own criteria and procedure. (within the realms of applicable laws)

4.5.3.1 Incident investigation
The organization shall establish, implement and maintain a procedure(s) to record, investigate and analyse incidents.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#25
Re: First Aid use records Vs Accident records

4.5.3.1 Incident investigation
The organization shall establish, implement and maintain a procedure(s) to record, investigate and analyse incidents.
Minor incidents such as knife cuts are incidents because OHSAS says so. But you can decide whether to record them or not, whether to investigate and take actions or not, based on your own criteria and procedure. (within the realms of applicable laws)
So in this procedure can I detail that all such incidents that are treated by a first aid care and which does not require secondary hospital care and which does not involve loss of man day will not be recorded and no First aid use details towards this will be recorded, investigated and analyzed...
 
S

samsung

#26
Re: First Aid use records Vs Accident records

So in this procedure can I detail that all such incidents that are treated by a first aid care and which does not require secondary hospital care and which does not involve loss of man day will not be recorded and no First aid use details towards this will be recorded, investigated and analyzed...
Ofcourse you can and still you are OHSAS compliant. Infact many organizations do like this. Furthermore, OHSAS doesn't mandate having a documented procedure for incident reporting.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#27
Re: First Aid use records Vs Accident records

Ofcourse you can and still you are OHSAS compliant. Infact many organizations do like this. Furthermore, OHSAS doesn't mandate having a documented procedure for incident reporting.
Agreed on documented procedure. But on the recording aspect, my views are different and is based on the 'incident' definition in OHSAS 18001.
Per terms and definitions in said standard ....
3.9 incident
work-related event(s) in which an injury or ill health (3.8) (regardless
of severity
) or fatality occurred, or could have occurred


I do not see a scope to filter the incidents into records. Hence the analysis and investigation will follow, however the degree of this can be based on facts collected.
 
S

samsung

#28
Re: First Aid use records Vs Accident records

Agreed on documented procedure. But on the recording aspect, my views are different and is based on the 'incident' definition in OHSAS 18001.
Per terms and definitions in said standard ....
3.9 incident
work-related event(s) in which an injury or ill health (3.8) (regardless
of severity
) or fatality occurred, or could have occurred


I do not see a scope to filter the incidents into records. Hence the analysis and investigation will follow, however the degree of this can be based on facts collected.
Definition of 'incidents' covers everything including what we call 'near misses' but recording of everything isn't mandatory. What OHSAS mandates is to have a procedure:

The organization shall establish, implement and maintain a procedure(s) to record, investigate and analyse incidents in order to..........
Here the 'shall' is intended for having a procedure in place, not for recording, reporting or investigating the incidents. If the organization decides not to record/investigate the incidents of minor nature, they can do so but whatever after all they decide to 'investigate', shall be recorded (documented).

Personally I favour atleast recording, if not investigating, all the incidents including near misses so that one can have a voluminous database to analyse the trends/ nature of incidents and can plan to have a program in place to avoid major disasters if one earnestly believes in the concept of H.W. Heinrich's 'Safety Pyramid' which demonstrates how reducing the high-frequency 'at-risk behaviors' does help reduce total injuries, taking on a more proactive approach. If the management does not identify the near miss/ minor injuries & risky behaviors as unacceptable performance, the safety culture doesn't prosper. The Management must identify such issues and put a system in place in order to achieve the desired OHS performance level.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#29
Re: First Aid use records Vs Accident records

Hi Samsung ...
My understanding of the word ‘shall’ as in the statement at 4.5.3.1, the definition of word ‘incident’ as in OHSAS 18001, details in the post #28 and your post at #24 … seems to be confusing me.
Our safety committee feels we cannot filter based on any of our own criteria (thought we wish to) and are looking at a procedure how we can be able to record all injuries …..
 
S

samsung

#30
Re: First Aid use records Vs Accident records

Hi Samsung ...
My understanding of the word ‘shall’ as in the statement at 4.5.3.1, the definition of word ‘incident’ as in OHSAS 18001, details in the post #28 and your post at #24 … seems to be confusing me.
I'm sorry to have misspelt 'reporting' as 'recording' in my earlier post (#24) and accordingly the 'reportable' was conveyed as 'recordable'. Infact the term 'reportable accident' is already defined in the H&S laws and if any of the accidents meets the defined criterion, it has to be reported anyway.

Our safety committee feels we cannot filter based on any of our own criteria (thought we wish to) and are looking at a procedure how we can be able to record all injuries …..
But still, as far as 'recording' goes I don't see any reason why you can't decide what to (or not to) record as long you are in compliance with all the applicable regulatory requirements. You can document this decision somewhere e.g. in Mgmt. Review minutes or in IMS manual/ Incident procedure etc. and this should be fine.
 
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