Definition First Article and First Article Inspection - Definition Discussion

[4037D]

I need some help settling an argument here.

We get an order from a customer for an assembly. While building the first one, we find quite a few parts that do not fit. Basically, it's another case of the customer using us as their prototyping department without telling us up front. That's ok.

The owner of our small company wants us to go ahead and document a first article inspection and submit it, with notes pertaining to what did not fit. (As we sometimes do on much simpler assemblies with only one or two variations - this one has many) We disagree, saying that if they need it to measure fit and function (it's a wire harness) that's fine, but it is not representative of a first article production piece and time should not be spent inspecting it until all the parts issues are resolved. (it's a long inspection)

If we did submit a first article report with missing/wrong parts, we would still need to repeat the process when the actual first piece assembled from final revised prints/bom's, no? This is no simple task with this assembly, about a 2 hour inspection.

It's engineering/QA's position that we could send a "prototype report" listing the problems, and we will submit first article documents when we build the actual first piece that conforms to the customer's prints and is indeed producable.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks,
Tym

 

[Jim Wynne]

Your method sounds reasonable, but are there other potential issues that a full inspection might catch now that might cause delays if you wait for "real" assembly?

 

[CarolX]

Hi Tym,

I gotta agree with you on this. A first article inspection is part of a process establishing your ability to make a product. Sounds like this thing is still in the R & D stage. I think your idea to submit a protoype report is excellent.

 

[4037D]

Your method sounds reasonable, but are there other potential issues that a full inspection might catch now that might cause delays if you wait for "real" assembly?

Yes, that's true. I should have been more specific. We have done a full inspection and testing routine to validate wire cut lengths, resistance, and such. However, we probably won't get this assembly back if we send it, so if we document it as a FAI now, we'll have to write it all over again after the revisions are made and the first real production piece is made. Doesn't exactly scream "value added."

Tym

 

[Justin]

We get an order from a customer for an assembly. While building the first one, we find quite a few parts that do not fit. Basically, it's another case of the customer using us as their prototyping department without telling us up front. That's ok.

The owner of our small company wants us to go ahead and document a first article inspection and submit it, with notes pertaining to what did not fit. (As we sometimes do on much simpler assemblies with only one or two variations - this one has many) We disagree, saying that if they need it to measure fit and function (it's a wire harness) that's fine, but it is not representative of a first article production piece and time should not be spent inspecting it until all the parts issues are resolved. (it's a long inspection)

If we did submit a first article report with missing/wrong parts, we would still need to repeat the process when the actual first piece assembled from final revised prints/bom's, no? This is no simple task with this assembly, about a 2 hour inspection.

It's engineering/QA's position that we could send a "prototype report" listing the problems, and we will submit first article documents when we build the actual first piece that conforms to the customer's prints and is indeed producable.

Am I missing something here?

Yes you are. Semantics.

Your owner is correct, it would more likely be a partial FAI though.
You are correct also, the prototype report is an FAI by another name.

If you are AS certified then Refer to AS9102 First Article Inspection Requirement section 5.3, the Shalls.

If you use the prototype report approach, you are still doing an FAI, just by another name. The prototype report just becomes part of the FAI documentation.

No matter how you look at it, you are doing a partial FAI. The full FAI will be performed on the actual first representative piece of the production run prior to full production.

Hope this helps

 

[Wes Bucey]

To add to both replies by Jim and Carol, this is essentially a Contract Review question which should be handled beforehand so both customer and supplier are on the same page regarding expectations.

As Jim writes, it is reasonable to expect a product to "work" if all the components meet the specifications. In your case, it is apparent that isn't always true. Engaging in a real collaboration between supplier and customer throughout the design and prototyping phase gives everyone a chance to introduce efficiencies into the process that are absolutely unavailable when one or the other party withholds information. The customer must be clear about the fit and function of the product, even to the point of supplying a mockup of the mating installation if necessary.

In retrofitting aerospace avionics, we frequently had to leave "excess tolerance" for final fit on each individual installation of wiring harnesses because each individual aircraft, even of the same type (747-300), could have individual variation of a foot or more in length because of prior retrofits that didn't meet the blueprints.

Knowing the possible points of variation could allow a supplier and customer to make provision in the requirements for "excess tolerance" on the mating characteristics when performing a First Article Inspection, thus assuring against surprises when NO FAI is performed.

 

[bpritts]

While the QA and engineering implications have been well addressed by our colleagues who have already spoken, let me add that there may be commercial/ sales related reasons to submit the document as an "official" first article submission, even though you know it isn't conforming, and must be repeated.

I don't know about aerospace, but in automotive many payments are tied to
first article (aka PPAP) submissions. I have been in situations where we needed to do a PPAP submission for jobs which were cancelled, so that we could get paid for the work done prior to cancellation. From an engineering point of view, it was silly, non-value added work... but since that's how we were paid, it became "value added"!

Regards,
Brad

 

[Jim Wynne]

While the QA and engineering implications have been well addressed by our colleagues who have already spoken, let me add that there may be commercial/ sales related reasons to submit the document as an "official" first article submission, even though you know it isn't conforming, and must be repeated.

I don't know about aerospace, but in automotive many payments are tied to
first article (aka PPAP) submissions. I have been in situations where we needed to do a PPAP submission for jobs which were cancelled, so that we could get paid for the work done prior to cancellation. From an engineering point of view, it was silly, non-value added work... but since that's how we were paid, it became "value added"!

Regards,
Brad

In my experience, payment of tooling and other development costs is usually tied (at least in part) to PPAP approval, not PPAP submission, and the scenario you bring up (which is a good point) requires approval of nonconforming material, which is never a good idea, unless there are varying levels of approval (a la GM's interim approval process).

 

[Marc]

Also see this thread: What does 1st piece (1st Article) mean to a lay person like myself?

Help out... Learn Wiki 'formatting ('tagging'). The Elsmar Cove Wiki Quality Assurance Glossary: First Article - Definition

 

[Wes Bucey]

Also see this thread: What does 1st piece (1st Article) mean to a lay person like myself?

Help out... Learn Wiki 'formatting ('tagging'). The Elsmar Cove Wiki Quality Assurance Glossary: First Article - Definition

Point me in the right direction to learn. I visited this page
https://elsmar.com/wiki/index.php/Quality_Assurance_Terms_Glossary
and note the glossary is not in alphabetical order on the "A" page where "Attribute" comes before "Abilene"