I would like to see that type of Exclusion Statement with justification.
First Article Applicability - All parts produced or just the Aerospace parts?
B
BadgerMan
Yep, that might be a tough sell.
Exclusion may have been a poor choice of words.
What I have seen is a dual registration where the registration cert clearly shows both AS9100B and ISO 9001:2000. Then in the scope statement it said something like "AS9100B applies to work cells 9 & 10, and ISO 9001:2000 applies to all other areas of the company". This was for a large machine shop. Indeed, they did so carefully deliniate the two areas and only applied AS9100B to those two work cells and ISO to the remainimg eight cells. When ISO work spilled over into those two cells, AS rules were applied (this was rare though). No AS work was permitted elsewhere.
I performed the internal audit at that shop. They had been so registered for several years with no kick from the registration/surveillance auditor.
What I have seen is a dual registration where the registration cert clearly shows both AS9100B and ISO 9001:2000. Then in the scope statement it said something like "AS9100B applies to work cells 9 & 10, and ISO 9001:2000 applies to all other areas of the company". This was for a large machine shop. Indeed, they did so carefully deliniate the two areas and only applied AS9100B to those two work cells and ISO to the remainimg eight cells. When ISO work spilled over into those two cells, AS rules were applied (this was rare though). No AS work was permitted elsewhere.
I performed the internal audit at that shop. They had been so registered for several years with no kick from the registration/surveillance auditor.
Just curious: Could you provide me the who is the Registrar that would allow such exclusion that is surely not part of Section 7 (ISO9001)? I am still a little confused here, just want some clarification.
B
BadgerMan
There is no exclusion.
Jim is saying that if the scope statement on the combo certification is worded properly, the FAI clause in the AS 9100 standard would not apply to the industrial type products because they would fall under the ISO certification's scope instead where there is no FAI clause.
Jim is saying that if the scope statement on the combo certification is worded properly, the FAI clause in the AS 9100 standard would not apply to the industrial type products because they would fall under the ISO certification's scope instead where there is no FAI clause.
It still amazes me, that a company would identify specific cells to specific work (Segregation of specific products or groups). I guess the next question that I would ask:
What are the guarantees that commercial/industrial product won't be manufactured in the other cells?
What are the guarantees that commercial/industrial product won't be manufactured in the other cells?
B
BadgerMan
Yeah, I agree. It is hard to make any assumptions though without knowing the details of their operation.
I came from the auto industry, ten years ago, where we lived the PPAP dream and really came to rely on it as a confirmation AND a baseline for things like tool wear and such. As a result, I see FAI as a value adding and risk avoidance activity. As you indicated above, I would find it hard to justify NOT performing an FAI on a new product or following a change.
Low hanging fruit for an auditor………………
Low hanging fruit for an auditor………………
That is my point exactly. How would someone respond to that obvious question?
Auditor's question: Show me the guarantee.
They had it tightly controlled. No aerospace work was performed outside of those two cells, and any non aerospace work performed in those two cells followed areospace procedures. I found three examples non aerospace work performed in those two cells in the past year, and all were performed to aerospace requirments, including FAI.
I thought there would be low hanging fruit but didn't find any.
I thought there would be low hanging fruit but didn't find any.
F
Frank T.
I have a question, please help clarify:
AS9100 is based on and includes ISO 9001, the only additions are whats worded in bold italic text which apply to the aerospace industry (see 1.1 General). With 8.2.4.2 being in bold italic text does that not mean it only applies to the aerospace product and not the industrial/commercial product regardless of the registration scope, so long as, the registration says you are in compliance with AS9100:2004 and ISO 9001:2000 or AS9100 based on and including ISO 9001:2000?
Or am I incorrect in my thinking?
AS9100 is based on and includes ISO 9001, the only additions are whats worded in bold italic text which apply to the aerospace industry (see 1.1 General). With 8.2.4.2 being in bold italic text does that not mean it only applies to the aerospace product and not the industrial/commercial product regardless of the registration scope, so long as, the registration says you are in compliance with AS9100:2004 and ISO 9001:2000 or AS9100 based on and including ISO 9001:2000?
Or am I incorrect in my thinking?
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