First Time Internal Auditor - Advice and Tips, please

T

tekno9000

#31
Re: First Time Internal Auditor

One thing that I learned (I am a relatively new auditor for my company) was that always ensure that you conduct opening / closing meetings with all the auditees. This ensures that this is not just a routine mundane job that needs to be done. I communicate the audit plan to auditees as well as top management and the MR so that they are aware of the audit and it also conveys everyone in the company that this is a serious business (Nothing against people, but looking for a scope of improvement).

While I ensure that audit is not taken lightly, humor and diplomacy are the best ice-breakers. Another important thing is to discuss the observances, non-conformations with the auditees and explain what is expected by the system before documenting them.

I always conclude the audit with assurance that the auditees can approach me anytime if they need any help with non-conformances / observations that are generated during the audit.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
R

ram4302

#32
Re: First Time Internal Auditor

Pl. prepare checklist before conducting IA.This would help you to cover all areas.Do fact finding audit rather than fault finding audit
 
P

p_mani888 - 2010

#33
If you do not know where to start ???????

Start with the process measurables and customer voices pertaining to the process what you are going to audit, definetely there will be some leads to proceed further.
 
S

samsung

#34
Re: First Time Internal Auditor

Pl. prepare checklist before conducting IA.This would help you to cover all areas.Do fact finding audit rather than fault finding audit
I've often heard it but couldn't so far make out what it's exactly about. What I take it from is the fact is that there are faults in your system that I have to highlight. Or does it convey something else ?
 
H

Hanr3

#35
There are 5 general questions to ask.
1) What are you doing? As in please tell me about your job.
2) How do you know what your doing is correct? As in show me your work instructions, documentation, specifications, or anything else related to your jobs specs, procedures, etc. Your looking for validation that what they are producing is correct and matches the customers expectation. You can also verify documentation is avialbe at point of use, and that the documentation is the most current version.
3) What do you do with rejects? Looking at the non-conforming process, and let them walk you through traceability. Could also tie into Preventive and/or Corrective action proces.
4) What is your quality policy?
5) What are your quality objectives?

Those 5 basic questions will get you going in the right direction. They will open the doors to just about everything you need to know, and they work for just about every employee in the company.
 
#36
There are 5 general questions to ask.
1) What are you doing? As in please tell me about your job.
2) How do you know what your doing is correct? As in show me your work instructions, documentation, specifications, or anything else related to your jobs specs, procedures, etc. Your looking for validation that what they are producing is correct and matches the customers expectation. You can also verify documentation is avialbe at point of use, and that the documentation is the most current version.
3) What do you do with rejects? Looking at the non-conforming process, and let them walk you through traceability. Could also tie into Preventive and/or Corrective action proces.
4) What is your quality policy?
5) What are your quality objectives?

Those 5 basic questions will get you going in the right direction. They will open the doors to just about everything you need to know, and they work for just about every employee in the company.
Surely, these are the kinds of question an external auditor asks, aren't they? Wouldn't an internal auditor ask different questions? Why ask about documentation, for example? Not all people have a WI - I don't, for example and, if you look at our system, it can be seen that there's no need, based on competency. Asking sort of 'blind' questions of this nature can cause problems - like what if the auditee says "I don't have a WI"? What then? NC? Or ok?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#37
4) What is your quality policy?
Where is this a requirement? Aren't they required to have the policy communicated to them for their understanding and not for memorization?

5) What are your quality objectives?
What if the objectives aren't "relevant" to their function or level?


Auditors ask questions relevant to the individual, their responsibilities and that the interviewee should reasonably be able to answer.

Also, you might know what your 1st question is going to be, but one can never guarantee what the 2nd question asked will be.Why? Simple, the 2nd question will absolutely depend upon what the answer to the 1st is and it may not be what was expected.

The "general" questions are a bit weak and lopsided sorry to say.
 
C

ChrissieO

#38
Re: First Time Internal Auditor - Advice or Tips, please

I'm not disagreeing, but let me ask you this. What do you do to help them take the audit seriously? For example, do you involve them in planning an audit? Do you focus the scope etc of the audit, with their participation, on something about their process that represents something important to them? Do you assist them to diagnose what parts of their process may be causing performance issues?

I've found, in many cases, that when audits are managed 'outside' of the core of the business and its process and associated performance issues - which is very frequently the case (we see those discussion here to often) - management don't know how to take audits seriously!

We, at the Cove, are constantly asked - "What element of ISO do I write that up under?" Do management even care or speak the language of ISO? A few moments reading those those type of threads reveals a lot about what's wrong with audit program management!

It's human nature to treat things which aren't understood with respect. Are you sure you're doing all you can to help them understand the role of audits, past being something that ISO says?

So true Andy, we now involve the management team in the planning of the audit schedule and apart from about 5 key process audits we let them drive the schedule.

The schedule is a live document and not cast in stone, we may only have 5 audits planned at the begining of the year but this grows as the management team identify areas of concern or the introduction of new processes.

We have gone from over 35 audits of isolated processes to 4 key audits of our complete process and a system review, all the other audits are requested by management.

They now all attend opening and closing meetings. At the closing meetings we discuss any NCs and get time scales and responsibilities from them.

At this point we do not even raise the "what clause" cos "frankly my dear, they don't give a damm", we would add this into our audit finding form for our own ref. and as a point of ref for our external CB if requested.

Chrissie x
 
H

Hanr3

#39
Surely, these are the kinds of question an external auditor asks, aren't they? Wouldn't an internal auditor ask different questions? Why ask about documentation, for example? Not all people have a WI - I don't, for example and, if you look at our system, it can be seen that there's no need, based on competency. Asking sort of 'blind' questions of this nature can cause problems - like what if the auditee says "I don't have a WI"? What then? NC? Or ok?
Yes they are questions an external auditor would ask, why should they be any different than the questions an internal auditor asks? Internal/external makes no difference, your auditing the QMS and all aspects of it.

Is it a blind question?
Your answer lead me to your training documentation. You claim to be competent based on training, then there should be training records to that effect, which can be audited.

It is a blind question or an open ended question?
Open ended questions put auditees at ease. Your not their to evaluate the employees performance, that's managements job, your thier to audit the QMS.


Yes there are times to ask specific questions. However the original poster asked for some tips, help to conduct his FIRST audit. Lets start out slow with generic questions, questions that the employees WILL be asked by an external auditor is practice for both of you, and it will highlight any potental problems before the Certification audit.
 
H

Hanr3

#40
Where is this a requirement? Aren't they required to have the policy communicated to them for their understanding and not for memorization?

What if the objectives aren't "relevant" to their function or level?


Auditors ask questions relevant to the individual, their responsibilities and that the interviewee should reasonably be able to answer.

Also, you might know what your 1st question is going to be, but one can never guarantee what the 2nd question asked will be.Why? Simple, the 2nd question will absolutely depend upon what the answer to the 1st is and it may not be what was expected.

The "general" questions are a bit weak and lopsided sorry to say.
I didn't ask the employee to recite the quality policy, they can point to a card/poster/sign with it printed, tell me it in their own words, what ever. The question is designed to see if management did in fact communicate.

Doesn't matter if the Quality Objectives are relevant to the individual or not. They should know them anyway. How many employees actually know what 6 Sigma means in relation to their job? Yet numerous manufactures make obtaining 6 Sigma a Quality Objective. On the flip side, why don't they have a quality objective? Whats the point of continual improvement if you don't have a goal?

No auditors don't ask questions relevant to the individual. They ask questions relevant the process/procedure the individual is a part of. You're not there to audit the employee, you're there to audit the QMS. I have yet to find an employee who doesn't know how to do his/her job. However I have found employees who don't know how the QMS ties into what they do.

I didn't ask any general questions. I asked open ended questions about very specific things. Each question is relevant to the employees function within the QMS.

Yes the next question maybe in response to an answer, however that is a audit trail you must now follow. I asked 5 very specific open ended questions that will lead me down 5 very different audit trails.

The original poster wanted some tips for conducting his first audits. Those 5 questions everybody in the company must be able to answer. Its a starting point.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
V Internal Auditor Competency KPI IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
B Internal Auditor Competency - Product Auditors Internal Auditing 9
U Internal Auditor not trained but done Audit for some process Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
M Tips on preparing for IATF 16949 Internal Lead Auditor exam Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
S ISO 13485 Lead Auditor - Debate between our Quality Team and Regulatory Auditor - Internal Auditor Training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 17
B Internal and external auditor competency to CSR's IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
D Impartiality of Internal Auditor ISO 9001/13485 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
M IATF 16949 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency - Trainer's competency Internal Auditing 7
C Recommendations for UK-based ISO 13485 internal auditor training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
A External Auditor issue with Internal Audits Internal Auditing 7
Q Internal Auditor competence for ISO 14001 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
S IATF 16949: Is "Certified" Internal Auditor mandatory? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
S Internal Auditing for API Spec Q1 - auditor qualification requirements Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 6
J Your opinion on the better training org for IATF16949 Internal auditor and Lead Auditor IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Q Internal Auditor Training requirements for ISO 14001:2015 ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 5
E Informational I would like to get some Internal Auditor Training Internal Auditing 31
Q What is the difference between normal and licensed internal auditor? VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 9
J IATF 16949 CAR - Internal Auditor Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
A ISO 13485 - Internal Auditor Independence and Process Owners ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
Q AS 9100D internal auditor training requirements Internal Auditing 16
A Other Discussion Boards - Internal Auditor Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 5
E Online training for an internal auditor to AS9120B AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
Q Internal Auditor Trainer's Requirement Internal Auditing 4
D IATF 16949 - Internal Auditor Training/Certification Requirements Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 2
R Internal Auditor vs. Public Accountant - Accounting Student Needing Help Career and Occupation Discussions 4
C IATF 16949 Cl. - 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
C IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 39
Q IATF 16949 Cl. 7.2.3 - Internal Auditor Competency and Records IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
R Internal Auditor auditing Internal Audit Procedure (AS9100) Internal Auditing 18
Q How can an Internal Auditor Trainer's Competency be Evaluated - IATF 16949 Cl. 7.2.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
H ISO/IATF Internal Auditor Recommendations For Manufacturer In California, USA Internal Auditing 3
Casana 2nd Party and Internal Auditor Qualifications & Training IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
P Problem with IATF 16949 Clause 7.2.3 Requirements (Internal Auditor Competency) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B Competency of Trainer for Internal Auditor Training (IATF 16949) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
C ISO 13485:2016 - Internal Auditor Training vs. Lead Auditor Training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 4
J Dinged on Internal Audits for supervising an auditor I was training Internal Auditing 10
M Internal Auditor --> Licence needed? Internal Auditing 6
V Internal Auditor Training Documents and PPT Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 5
V Internal Auditor Training Documents and PPT Internal Auditing 3
V Certified Internal auditor is necessary? ISO 9001 requirement? Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 4
D Can the Plant Manager be our ISO Representative and an Internal Auditor? Internal Auditing 26
M ISO 13485 Audit Questions - Internal Auditor Training and other Requirements ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 10
M Questions about AS9100 Internal Auditor Training AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
R Can a external auditor raise a finding that is already identified in Internal Audit ? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
P Can internal ISO 17025 Auditor conduct ISO 9001 Audit ISO 17025 related Discussions 7
P Internal Auditor Training - Audit exercises Internal Auditing 5
D Training Material for Internal Auditor Requirements Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 4
U TS16949 Internal Auditor Training - Is On-line training OK? Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
F Internal Audit quiz - Auditor Qualifications and Requirements Internal Auditing 34

Similar threads

Top Bottom