FMEA as a Confidential Document - PPAP Level 3 - Can the FMEA be hidden?

J

jrubio

#1
Hi.

Regardog the FMA my company states that FMEA is a confidential Document and therefore this document can not be provided to the Customer, only a Pareto result is available but of course the FMEA is available to our Customer at our Site.

With this Policy some Customer is claming mentioning that Level 3 call for the full FMEA document.

Could you please provide your oppinion abaut that?.

Thanks.
 

Jim Wynne

Super Moderator
#2
jrubio said:
Hi.

Regardog the FMA my company states that FMEA is a confidential Document and therefore this document can not be provided to the Customer, only a Pareto result is available but of course the FMEA is available to our Customer at our Site.

With this Policy some Customer is claming mentioning that Level 3 call for the full FMEA document.

Could you please provide your oppinion abaut that?.

Thanks.
If you have a contract that calls for Level 3 PPAP submission, you have tacitly agreed to submit your PFMEA (and DFMEA, if applicable). It's a matter of negotiation, and negotiations should always be done before signing the contract.
 

Marc

Captain Nice
Staff member
Admin
#4
Jim Wynne said:
If you have a contract that calls for Level 3 PPAP submission, you have tacitly agreed to submit your PFMEA (and DFMEA, if applicable). It's a matter of negotiation, and negotiations should always be done before signing the contract.
I've been in a lot of companies that do not send FMEAs and Control Plans because of confidentiality. They allow on-site inspection only.

Beware - I have also seen companies that get these documents, provide them to a cheaper supplier and then change to the cheaper supplier.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#5
It is an accepted situation in Europe not to submit FMEA. The VDA warrant asks if you have performed.
The best thing to do is as Marc says, offer to show them but not to allow them to keep it.
 

antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
FMEA know how

We have always done it in that way.
We agreed with the customer that they could look into it - thus proving we had the know how of the technique and that it was implemented - but we did not give copies.

We could do that for every customer except for Citroën. They insisted on having copies ( also of our drawings , control plan, etc ).
We even had to translate them into French.
and yes .......the job went to a French supplier afterwards.

Best regards,

Antoine
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#7
antoine.dias said:
We have always done it in that way.
We agreed with the customer that they could look into it - thus proving we had the know how of the technique and that it was implemented - but we did not give copies.

We could do that for every customer except for Citroën. They insisted on having copies ( also of our drawings , control plan, etc ).
We even had to translate them into French.
and yes .......the job went to a French supplier afterwards.

Best regards,

Antoine
About 8 years ago I submitted 6 PPAP's in French for a series of parts for Renault , I wrote in English and then our French agent came here and we translated them.
The PPAP worked in 2 stages, the initial theoretical part and later the actual results.
 

Jim Wynne

Super Moderator
#8
Marc said:
I've been in a lot of companies that do not send FMEAs and Control Plans because of confidentiality. They allow on-site inspection only.
I also know of a lot of companies that don't want to put FMEAs in PPAP submissions. My point to the OP was that if a supplier agrees unconditionally to Level 3 PPAP contractually, if push comes to shove (and it almost never does) the supplier is obligated to submit

Marc said:
Beware - I have also seen companies that get these documents, provide them to a cheaper supplier and then change to the cheaper supplier.
There is almost never anything in a PFMEA that might confer a competitive advantage. Control plans potentially have more value in that regard (although again, the value usually isn't significant) but almost no one ever asks permission to omit control plans from PPAP submissions.
 
J

jrubio

#9
A level 3 call for submit the FMEA

A level 3 call for submit the FMEA, but

If exist a patent the FMEA submit can be avoid,

Therefore if there is no patent or this has expired the only solution is negotiate before signing or change the Level to others.

Thanks.
 
J

jrubio

#10
It was the detailed Drawing

Excuse me.

The AMFEC it was not, It was the detailed Drawing according to PPAP fouth Edition.

My appologies.

:mad:
 

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