FMEA Detection Ranking for Testing Machines

Rajendrak

Involved In Discussions
#1
How the detection ranking of the testing machine shouls be done?

e.g. in a process for 'X' product, the product is tested for leak in leak testing machine. Now as per the fourth edition of FMEA manual (page99)
: Assume the failure has occured & then access the capabilities of all "current process controls" to prevent shipment of the part having this failure mode.

Now in this leak test should we assume that leak testing machine has failed to detect the leak & we have to detect in next process before shipment?

Is this logic clear? or we should not consider failures at testing machine?

Please help!
 
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Tore Forland

#2
Interesting problem.

I believe that failures in your controls are not taken into account when you perform the FMEA (detection). This should already be built into the detection scale (1-10)

If the leak testing machine is of great importance you could conduct a separate FMEA on this equipment to improve it, but normally fulfilling monitoring of the measurement systems should be enough to ensure you always have "correct" readings. After all, there is a whole section on this in most standards.

I hope I understood your concern correctly, and the answer helped, but I also hope you will get some more replys on this important issue.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Interesting problem.

I believe that failures in your controls are not taken into account when you perform the FMEA (detection). This should already be built into the detection scale (1-10)

If the leak testing machine is of great importance you could conduct a separate FMEA on this equipment to improve it, but normally fulfilling monitoring of the measurement systems should be enough to ensure you always have "correct" readings. After all, there is a whole section on this in most standards.

I hope I understood your concern correctly, and the answer helped, but I also hope you will get some more replys on this important issue.
I agree. There is some process for which the leak tester serves as a detection control, and its probability of failure should be a part of the detection RPN value for the process or operation.
 

Rajendrak

Involved In Discussions
#4
failures in controls are taken into account when we performed the FMEA (detection).

But a customer complaint triggered the issue. This points to wrong detection ranking. Now should we think of reviwing detetction ranking or do fmea for this machine alongwith the FMEA of all testing machines?
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted Information Resource
#5
failures in controls are taken into account when we performed the FMEA (detection).

But a customer complaint triggered the issue. This points to wrong detection ranking. Now should we think of reviwing detetction ranking or do fmea for this machine alongwith the FMEA of all testing machines?
In the first place, the fact that you ended up with Customer complaint indicates that initial estimation of detection capability of your testing process had gone wrong and was comfortable enough not to trigger any action.

I would now suggest you to first address testing process separately in FMEA. By doing this, you are basically trying to improve the detection capability of the testing process, per se. Now this shall indeed be followed by review of detection ranking at relevant process steps, understandably so.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
failures in controls are taken into account when we performed the FMEA (detection).

But a customer complaint triggered the issue. This points to wrong detection ranking. Now should we think of reviwing detetction ranking or do fmea for this machine alongwith the FMEA of all testing machines?
In the first place, the fact that you ended up with Customer complaint indicates that initial estimation of detection capability of your testing process had gone wrong and was comfortable enough not to trigger any action.

I would now suggest you to first address testing process separately in FMEA. By doing this, you are basically trying to improve the detection capability of the testing process, per se. Now this shall indeed be followed by review of detection ranking at relevant process steps, understandably so.
The fact that something bad happened doesn't necessarily mean that the Detection ranking was wrong. It means that it should be reviewed. Unless the PFMEA prediction was that nothing would ever go undetected, the current issue might be consonant with the original prediction.
 

Chennaiite

Never-say-die
Trusted Information Resource
#7
The fact that something bad happened doesn't necessarily mean that the Detection ranking was wrong. It means that it should be reviewed. Unless the PFMEA prediction was that nothing would ever go undetected, the current issue might be consonant with the original prediction.
I don't think in this particular case original prediction is consistent with the current issue.

This is what the OP says-
failures in controls are taken into account when we performed the FMEA (detection).

But a customer complaint triggered the issue. This points to wrong detection ranking. Now should we think of reviwing detetction ranking or do fmea for this machine alongwith the FMEA of all testing machines?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
I don't think in this particular case original prediction is consistent with the current issue.

This is what the OP says-
What he said was the a customer discovered the issue, and that fact "points to wrong detection rating." If he believes his detection rating was wrong, he should fix it. All I was saying was that the fact that an escape occurred doesn't necessarily mean that the original rating was wrong. In fact, it's possible that the OP's detection controls are performing better than originally predicted.
 

Rajendrak

Involved In Discussions
#9
Can I say that taking the testing machines under FMEA & then try to improve or review their detection ranking will be a better solution for the future?
 
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