FMEA Third Edition Changes and Powerway

J

JohnR

#11
3rd edition FMEA

We work with GM, Ford and Chrysler and Chrysler has asked about the third edition changes but GM has demanded that we incorporate the changes in existing FMEA's and even had us attend a workshop for FMEA writing which spent some time covering the 3rd edition changes.

I see that most people are aware of the changes that affect Current Process Controls-Detection vs. Prevention but nothing has been mentioned for what I think is the biggest change...the "Suggested" (I use suggested loosely because it's been mandated we follow it) Evaluation Criteria for Detection.

It has gone from a very liberal, loose interpretation in 2nd edition to actually specifying inspection types, criteria for controls and suggested range of Detection Modes (see pg 53).

People that thought their 200% visual inspection was foolproof can now give it no better than a 7 on the detection scale. Control achieved with SPC can get no better than a 6.

It's basically forced us to go back and re-evaluate how we rate our detection levels and in some cases has caused us to streamline the ratings between FMEA's where we unknowingly gave one detection level a 5 on one FMEA and the same item on another FMEA a 2.

In fact we found that very few of our detection levels can actually get a 1 because the new criteria dictates that the process/product design must be error proofed.

It certainly presents lots of opportunities for improvement, but realistically it will also raise the RPN's across the board which was every managers nightmare. It wasn't uncommon in the class to see several RPN's in the 400 range.

Has anyone else had a customer hold them to the new criteria?

What about customers dictating a "bogey target" for RPN's?

What's really scary is our QS Auditor can in here in Sept and wasn't even aware of the third edition changes.

Food for thought

John
 
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D
#12
John,
Our auditor was here last week and he wasn't aware of the changes either. He heard it first from me. These registrars amaze. Just once I would like to go in and audit them. Maybe Ford will ask me sometime?
 
I

IceZebra

#13
Just a quick note for everyone who may still be reading this thread. I know this isn't what the original subject of this thread was but...

I was at a workshop in early September and the feedback I was getting from the Automotive Supplier Task Force was that they want to get rid of the RPN calculation, hopefully with the next release of the FMEA reference manual.

Focus should move to the higher ranked failure effects (severity) with continuous improvement efforts implemented to reduce the occurence and detection rankings to 1.

There are those 2 words again; continuous improvement.

Ice
:truce:
 
D

David McGan

#14
Actually, I don't expect the RPN to "go away," just that the focus will be more on what's really important. We recently purchased software (Q-Plus from Harpco Systems, Inc) not necessarily because of the software itself, but rather because the philosophy of the person who created the software. He made a very convincing argument that just looking at RPN's doesn't mean squat.

Sounds like the Automotive Task Force may be moving in the right direction, as far as I'm concerned.
 
I

IceZebra

#15
David,

What do you think of Rich's software package? We have been using it for the entire life of our facility (approximately 6 years now) and I love it.

I found the learning curve on it to be quite steep but once I figured out what Rich was thinking when he wrote this app, it was clear sailing and a drastic improvement over any other application that was on the market then, or available now.

Good luck.

Ice
 
D

David McGan

#16
I agree that QPLUS will have a fairly steep learning curve. We've just installed it and have not really begun the journey to populate it other than from a 2-day consulting session with Rich.

However, I think it could revolutionize the way we look at FMEA's. I actually now see where we can gain significant benefits through the FMEA process -- not because we're needing a document to send to our customer (who really is only looking for a piece of paper in many cases), but rather because we have a tool for more systematic troubleshooting, root cause analysis, and a "lessons learned" database.

I've got high hopes. But again, we've JUST started on the journey. Glad to hear that your experiences after six years re-enforce our own perceptions.
 
#17
Does it really make a difference what AIAG sells if we are being pushed to use "powerway" as our PPAP tool?
 
I

IceZebra

#18
Down the garden path.

Sam,

Don't get sucked into believing that you have to use the Powerway APQP application, as Powerway would like you to.

The only thing that is required is that you use the portal that is provided by Powerway.com. You can continue to use any APQP application, or even Word, Excel, Lotus, etc., if you like.

Our company was ready to spend oodles of cash on Powerway's APQP app but luckily I was able to make the powers that be see the light.

Ice.
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#19
David McGan

My company, too, has used the QPLUS system for over four years. I agree with IceZebra that the learning curve is extremely steep, especially if you've ever been through a B3 FMEA seminar. While I have some things I would like to see "upgraded", I have not run across any better software. My management recently wanted to see if there was something a little more "user friendly" out there so I got to try quite a number.

Either Rich or Bob are coming to our facility in a month or so and I'm hoping to bounce some ideas that I have off them (their "Help" menu is worthless, IMO).

Good luck and I think once you get going that you will be impressed with the change in the way you "look at" FMEAs.

Sam

I now have two (soon to be five) customers all wanting submission on-line and "demanding" their preferred software package. I sent each of them a "trial" submission with all the documentation in ".pdf" format and asked if there were any issues with the submission. The response from each was "None"!!!! :frust:

Go figure.

Bill
 
#20
ICE,
my statement was meant to be a "tongue-in-cheek" comment based on the need to meet customer requirements, however, your response has generated a couple of questions.

1- does that mean this would be a no cost venture to use the powerway portal?

2- is excel directly exportable to or through this portal?

3- Have you used this portal for submission?

Bill,
We supply product to all of the automotive OEM's. Not one has asked for an on-line PPAP/ISIR submission.

As far as software, my personel choice is Excel. Primarily because I'm not tied into yearly maintenance fees.
Coupled with Viseo/MS project/auto-cad/solid works, it makes one powerful tool.
 
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