# Following up my Fish Bone

#### Gman2

##### Involved - Posts
SO I have my cause and effect chart complete on this process we are having a problem with. My question now is WTH do I do with it!? What are some of the things you guys do? Do you just use these things to identify possible causes and leave it at that or do you follow up on each individual cause? It seems pretty usless to just identify the problems if you are not going to do anything about them. I know there must be tools to handle this after the chart is generated but it's been a long time since I have used this cause and effect diagram.

G.

#### RoxaneB

##### Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
At my Organization, our team looks at all the possible causes and rates them. So, let's say there are 10 potential causes...and 5 people on the team. Each person is to rate each potential cause on a scale of 1 to 10...1 being the least likely, 10 being the most likely.

So, in the end you will have 10 potential causes listed and 5 ratings beside each one. The sum of ratings for each potential cause is calculated. The top 3 - 5 (i.e., those scoring the highest) will be the ones addressed, depending on necessary actions to be taken to address each cause, timelines, cost, return on investment, etc.

D

#### db

Along with Roxanne's comments I would just like to add that the CAED shows you where to look for problems, not what the problems are. You still must investigate to determine the root cause(s).

#### RoxaneB

##### Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
db said:
Along with Roxanne's comments I would just like to add that the CAED shows you where to look for problems, not what the problems are. You still must investigate to determine the root cause(s).

Whoops! I was thinking of our Abnormality Report which shows both the fishbone diagrame and provides a table for root causes. We look at the areas off of the fishbone and, using the approach I mentioned above, try to pinpoint the root cause in those areas before taking actions.

D

#### db

RCBeyette said:
Whoops! I was thinking of our Abnormality Report which shows both the fishbone diagrame and provides a table for root causes. We look at the areas off of the fishbone and, using the approach I mentioned above, try to pinpoint the root cause in those areas before taking actions.

My apologies, I just noticed I spelled your name wrong.

When teaching Disciplined Problem Solving, I always push towards using a variety of tools to discover the root cause(s). After conducting a process map, I typically start off with the CAED (it gives a good overview of the process), but then incorporate the 5 whys to determine what data I should be collecting. I analyze the data using other tools, and from there, I develop the action plan.

#### RoxaneB

##### Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
db said:
My apologies, I just noticed I spelled your name wrong.

No worries...I won't scream "Off with his head!"....this time.

db said:
When teaching Disciplined Problem Solving, I always push towards using a variety of tools to discover the root cause(s). After conducting a process map, I typically start off with the CAED (it gives a good overview of the process), but then incorporate the 5 whys to determine what data I should be collecting. I analyze the data using other tools, and from there, I develop the action plan.

The approach, while somewhat different then ours, appears to have the same results. We don't use process maps as fishbones are primarily used in well-established processes and focus on operational issues like unscheduled delays > 45 minutes. But the 5 Why's are used. Data collected. People talked with. Teams formed. Action Plans developed.

#### Geoff Cotton

##### Quite Involved in Discussions
The brainstorming team ranks the top causes by priority

How….

Each team member has say 10 points
They can assign the points to causes they feel are important
Total the points for each cause
Rank the causes by their priority
Choose the top ranked causes (Not more than 5)
Analyze the causes (may need to use other tools i.e. Affinity Diagram, FMEA, 5Why etc. or some other tool you are comfortable with.)
Develop a plan of action

B

#### ben sortin

Try color coding the different symptoms of the fishbone as follows:

Gray - perceived causes
Blue - common causes
Green - special causes
Red - root cause

This adds a visual effect which I have used in training as well. Determining the red one (did I say one) is the fun of it.