"For Reference Only" - Internal and External Documents

N

noboost4you

#1
I'm sure this question has been asked before and as I did find some information via searching, nothing was 100% clear to me.

Our Engineering department has a cabinet, which cannot be locked, marked as "Reference Only" on the outside. The inside contains thousands of hard copy drawings which contain all the essentials (Rev, Drawing Number, Date, Title, Appvd By, Checked By, Issued By, etc) but NONE of them have "For Reference Only" stamped or printed on them. We have this cabinet so Customer Service can "reference" the drawings at their leisure when customers have questions instead of asking an Engineer to print off another copy. Do we need to stamp each hardcopy? I'm thinking yes, because even though they are in a cabinet marked "Reference Only" that cabinet is not locked and once a drawing is removed from the cabinet, who's to say what it is?

As for External documents, we get/have hundreds of supplier catalogs and other outside information "floating" around. The majority of them are in a centralized location, but they are not documented. Once they come in, they go straight to the shelf. Do we need to document each catalog/external document that comes in electronically? Ex: Supplier A catalog comes in the mail today. Before placing it on the shelf, should I document that Supplier A catalog arrived 3/5/2007 and is located on Shelf AB? OR Could I just stamp each catalog "For Reference Only" and put them wherever?

This is a really foggy issue for me and I hope it can be cleared up.

Thanks,
Bryan
 
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SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#2
Don't make document control any harder than it needs to be. think "outside the filing cabinet" if you will. Do you have a list of each of those drawings? Does it give the latest rev level? Have you stated within your system that the printed drawings are for reference only and are not considered to be current unless the rev. level is checked against the list? (one solution) (I no longer own a "for reference only" stamp)

As for catalogs...I've never heard of anyone trying to control those. Please don't take this the wrong way, but who would care? There is usually some sort of date on a catalog "Summer 2007", so if it is 2010, I am thinking I'd call the supplier to see if they still have the "widget" and what its current price is.

If you have operators manuals for equipment, usually those are handled within the department that is using the equipment, or possibly maintenance, depending on the size of the organization.

Make your system work for you. There is no profit in over documenting or documenting yourself into a corner.
 
W

warrior

#3
I agree with the last post. I think the best method is the KISS method!
(KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid)

[no flames please...]

:agree1:
 
N

noboost4you

#4
Yes, we do have an electronic list that contains Drawing Number, Part Number, Description, Rev, Date, and Product. However, I don't believe we have anywhere that printed copies are for reference only except on the cabinet itself.

Ok, so catalogs don't need to be touched. But User Manuals for machines need to be controlled/documented. What else would be considered an External document?

Thanks
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#5
No, I did not mean that you need to document which operator's manuals you have and control them, sorry, my bad. I just meant that they are usually (and I know that there will be some proponents on the other side) just kept wherever they are most handily stored. It is up to you to decide if they are so important to you that you need to documdnt their existence/control.

These kinds of documents are not going to be updated by the supplier, so why bother with controlling them? If you ever lose one, you could probably get another from the supplier. The only thing that I personally would "control" from the documents that you refer to, would be the original, (it sounds like) computer drawing file. i.e. printed drawings are considered to be uncontrolled documents and their validity can be ascertained by verifying the rev level with the "Engineering Drawing List" which is a living document showing all rev levels.
 
N

noboost4you

#6
Would those hardcopies then be a part of the Master List of Obsolete Documents if they are for only reference use?

And yes, the most current Revision level of any drawing is on the computer. However, like I mentioned above, no printed copy of any drawing states "Printed copies are uncontrolled," "For Reference Only," or "Obsolete." What if someone were to pull a drawing out of the cabinet (which anyone who is in the building can have access too) and misplaces it/doesn't return it. Who's to say what that printed copy is if there is no stamp/watermark on it?
 

CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#7
I would also suggest you scroll down to the bottom of this page for links to similar threads. Read through some of those, might give you a different perspective.
 
N

noboost4you

#8
As I've been waiting for responses to this thread I have been reading the Similar Threads at the bottom :)
 
N

noboost4you

#9
I'm going off on a tangent, please bear with me

I guess the concept that I'm having trouble figuring out is to what extent are documents "controlled"? Will having a Master List containing the File Name, Rev, and Date be sufficient? Or do I need to know where it is, who has it, etc. at all times? Define "controlled"

In one of the Similar Threads below, this is posted:
"Product defect samples are displayed in a lighted glass cabinet in the visual inspection area. The samples illustrate the limits of various defects that can be considered acceptable to customers, and they're used when inspectors aren't certain of the criteria. Currently, the display cabinet is labeled "for reference only." Despite this declaration, the samples should be controlled because they define customer requirements" How?

I apologize for my random thoughts.
 
C

Craig H.

#10
I'm going off on a tangent, please bear with me

I guess the concept that I'm having trouble figuring out is to what extent are documents "controlled"? Will having a Master List containing the File Name, Rev, and Date be sufficient? Or do I need to know where it is, who has it, etc. at all times? Define "controlled"

In one of the Similar Threads below, this is posted:
"Product defect samples are displayed in a lighted glass cabinet in the visual inspection area. The samples illustrate the limits of various defects that can be considered acceptable to customers, and they're used when inspectors aren't certain of the criteria. Currently, the display cabinet is labeled "for reference only." Despite this declaration, the samples should be controlled because they define customer requirements" How?

I apologize for my random thoughts.

Because they are what the product is compared to when maiking the decision concerning whether or not to send the product to the customer.
 
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