Form Identification Numbers - I do not really understand the benefit of a form number

B

Bpoole

#1
I have recently changed companies and my new company has a 6 digit form number on "most" of their forms in addition to a date. I do not understand the reason behind the form number. I have ask several here why and was told and it must be becasue ISO requires it. I know we have to control our forms, etc, but I do not really understand the benfit of a form number. I have always used the title and revision date. This is a very small company.

comments please

Thank You,
Barbara
:thanx:
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Bpoole said:
I have recently changed companies and my new company has a 6 digit form number on "most" of their forms in addition to a date. I do not understand the reason behind the form number. I have ask several here why and was told and it must be becasue ISO requires it. I know we have to control our forms, etc, but I do not really understand the benfit of a form number. I have always used the title and revision date. This is a very small company.

comments please

Thank You,
Barbara
:thanx:
There is no ISO requirement for numbering, only control (of certain types of documents) as you suggest. There are all sorts of numbering and control schemes, and my advice is to do whatever is the simplest that serves the purpose. If your documents are not numbered but you can still control them adequately, then numbers aren't necessary.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#4
I know companies which identify forms by the form title and they identify procedures the same way - By title. No benefit to numbers in a small company.
 
#5
Totally agree.....

that there's little necessity for numbering (forms are generally unique in their design and are, therefore, easily identifiable).

It's good to see a 'ray of common sense sunshine' about this kind of thing:lol:

Andy
 
K

Kevin H

#6
I've got to agree that there is no ISO 9001 requirement for form numbers, you just need to control them. I initially started with just form name and revision date for document control. I found that adding a form number for the company wide forms controlled by QA made it easier for me to track and control them. You might have inherited a system that developed similarly. No ISO 9001 requirement to keep it that way, but you might want to check and see if there is an underlying reason for the form numbers.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#7
So the consensus is that there is no need to number the documents, but is there a benefit to changing that aspect of their process? Especially having just started there? Change is difficult but I'll admit I'd raise an eyebrow at a new person coming in and seeing one of her first actions to remove all the numbers from the forms. How's the rest of their document control process?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
RCBeyette said:
So the consensus is that there is no need to number the documents, but is there a benefit to changing that aspect of their process?
Numbers do no harm either (unless they're too complicated), so there might not be much point in removing them if they're not hurting anything.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Let me suggest:

Having seen literally dozens of situations like this, I have a hunch I understand what happened:
  1. At some point in the dim past, the company bought (or copied) a package of forms from a consultant for ISO
  2. The consultant had a "one size fits all" method
  3. Result is company has document system for much larger operation (GE, GM, etc.)
  4. Consultant liked the "mystique" (and the money) from keeping details and simplicity of ISO from company folk.
Current situation:
  1. newbie comes in and sees "emperor without clothes" in overkill on documentation
  2. newbie can bide time to introduce changes gradually BECAUSE there is no urgency - the content of the document is most important, not the numbering or titling system.
I have a hunch many of the documents themselves are overkill and probably can be "retired" without negative effect - just not until newbie gets self established as "good guy.".
 
R

ralphsulser

#10
I implemented and use numbers along with revision numbers and dates on all the check sheets I initiated.
Why you might ask- this was a brand new American/Japanese company starting up and many changes were in the wind to not only correct but improve. I try to correlate the revision numbers with the detailed Specification instructions posted at every operation in each process. It has helped many times when we find someone is not using the latest revision, or they come and say "hey, these don't match", and I say why are you still using the old revision. I know they have it because I personally take them a master and 5 copies each time there is a revision. I also look for old copies and dispose of them. But sometimes someone has an old copy squirreled away in a drawer. But we do audit for these conditions.
So numbers and dates work for us. I agree they are not required but sometimes it makes our life easier with all the new people we have hired in the last 2 years.
 
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