Format Number and Document Number - Differences

M

mitrbikram

#1
Hello Everyone

Whats the difference between Format No. and Doc No.??

I might be asking a newbie question as i just shifted my job and this new company is ISO/TS 16949 certified.
I must say certified in papers only. They want me to do the ISO/TS management along with Production Management.

Is it Like Format No. is given to a format of a document?
Like all Control Plans of all products will be under same format.
and Doc No. differs with product as the matter will be different for different products.

Or is it same?

Thanks in advance
 
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M

mayank_thkkr

#2
Re: Difference Between Format No. and Doc No.

Hi,

Clause 4.2.3 (Control of Documents) in ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 9001:2008 calls for the Mandatory Processes in organization to Control Documents.

This process shall address these requirements. For me your understanding is correct that "Blank" document should have Format number (Typically that is addressed in Master list of Documents) and Filled Documents should have document number ( Master list of Records)

But important point is your process for Control of Document and Record shall address these points the way you want to follow.
:)
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Hello Everyone

Whats the difference between Format No. and Doc No.??

I might be asking a newbie question as i just shifted my job and this new company is ISO/TS 16949 certified.
I must say certified in papers only. They want me to do the ISO/TS management along with Production Management.

Is it Like Format No. is given to a format of a document?
Like all Control Plans of all products will be under same format.
and Doc No. differs with product as the matter will be different for different products.

Or is it same?

Thanks in advance
Welcome to the Cove. :bigwave:

I'm not sure about format number--it's something I've never heard of. Is this something that's in use in your company? If so, can you give an example? I have a feeling it has something to do with forms, but that's just a guess.
 
T

treesei

#4
Hello Everyone

Whats the difference between Format No. and Doc No.??

I might be asking a newbie question as i just shifted my job and this new company is ISO/TS 16949 certified.
I must say certified in papers only. They want me to do the ISO/TS management along with Production Management.

Is it Like Format No. is given to a format of a document?
Like all Control Plans of all products will be under same format.
and Doc No. differs with product as the matter will be different for different products.

Or is it same?

Thanks in advance
We have "form No." and "Doc No.". Form # means the blank format of a form. Eg: Form 101 for control plan. Doc # is for individuals. Eg: Doc 101-xxx refers to the completed control plan for product xxx.

Does it sound like your format # and doc #?

The important thing is not what you call them but how you define them and relate them.
 
M

mitrbikram

#5
But important point is your process for Control of Document and Record shall address these points the way you want to follow.
:)
Ahh.. Got it.. Its only the way we want to follow the record.
Thanx Mayank

I'm not sure about format number--it's something I've never heard of. Is this something that's in use in your company? If so, can you give an example? I have a feeling it has something to do with forms, but that's just a guess.
The document i saw was not from my company but from the company from which my management copied all these docs.. lol.

That doc created the confusion, I guess that company write Format No. in place of Doc no. My company using Doc No. so its clear now.

Thanx Jim

We have "form No." and "Doc No.". Form # means the blank format of a form. Eg: Form 101 for control plan. Doc # is for individuals. Eg: Doc 101-xxx refers to the completed control plan for product xxx.
Hey treesei.. how did u came to know that my next question is related to ur 2nd example.. lol

Here in my company the control plans i saw with different products got same doc# (MCC/D/QPM/06-01). The whole confusion created by this only. According to me also these doc# should change with change in product like MCC/D/QPM/06-02 then MCC/D/QPM/06-03 or whatever number we may give to that product.

Thats why i asked difference between Format#/Doc#

From above all discussion i concluded that

Format# should be MCC/D/QPM/06 for all control plans.
and
Doc# should be MCC/D/QPM/06-"XXX"
"XXX" changes with product change.

Am i right here??

Coz if i m right then i have to change all Doc numbers of all control plans also FMEA and all other stuff. That will be huge for me and also for Boss (owner) as well coz by doing this i may point out his mistake.
 
T

treesei

#6
Hey treesei.. how did u came to know that my next question is related to ur 2nd example.. lol

Here in my company the control plans i saw with different products got same doc# (MCC/D/QPM/06-01). The whole confusion created by this only. According to me also these doc# should change with change in product like MCC/D/QPM/06-02 then MCC/D/QPM/06-03 or whatever number we may give to that product.

Thats why i asked difference between Format#/Doc#

From above all discussion i concluded that

Format# should be MCC/D/QPM/06 for all control plans.
and
Doc# should be MCC/D/QPM/06-"XXX"
"XXX" changes with product change.

Am i right here??

Coz if i m right then i have to change all Doc numbers of all control plans also FMEA and all other stuff. That will be huge for me and also for Boss (owner) as well coz by doing this i may point out his mistake.
Hi mitrbikram,

There is no right or wrong here. Many QMS aspects are designed based on the usefulness and convenience to the users. However, I agree that your way is the more logical way vs your company's way of having all control plans bear the same number. So, you are "right", IMHO :).

I would use MCC/D/QPM/06-xxx-a. Here xxx is product specific. We use P/N. "a" is rev #.

Of course the boss (owner) is always right:). No challenge here. Just tell him what a wonderful job he did and humbly ask if you can do a little adjustment because the product portfolio (as well as the documents) is/will be growing under his leadership and you think this little adjustment will help you do a better job for him :).

If the workload is huge to update all existing docs, you may grandfather all of them and start to use your system with new docs. Then whenever an old one needs updating, include it into your system.

:2cents:
 
M

mitrbikram

#7
Hi mitrbikram,

There is no right or wrong here. Many QMS aspects are designed based on the usefulness and convenience to the users. However, I agree that your way is the more logical way vs your company's way of having all control plans bear the same number. So, you are "right", IMHO :).

I would use MCC/D/QPM/06-xxx-a. Here xxx is product specific. We use P/N. "a" is rev #.

Of course the boss (owner) is always right:). No challenge here. Just tell him what a wonderful job he did and humbly ask if you can do a little adjustment because the product portfolio (as well as the documents) is/will be growing under his leadership and you think this little adjustment will help you do a better job for him :).

If the workload is huge to update all existing docs, you may grandfather all of them and start to use your system with new docs. Then whenever an old one needs updating, include it into your system.

:2cents:
This is perfect.. I mean the advice u gave to humbly ask if i can do a little change is perfect..

Thanx Treesei
 
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