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Formats for Turtle Diagram Models for a Variety of Different System Models

  • Thread starter The Quality Kid
  • Start date
T

The Quality Kid

#1
Turtle Models

As this is my first post, I hope this question has not been already asked.


I have seen a a few different formats for Turtles being used for a variety of different system models. Is there any specific training just for turtle development? Since this area is very important due to the fact that we are setting up our system with this, is a lead auditor course going to cover what I need to know to do this effectively?
 
T

The Quality Kid

#3
Turtle Model

By 'model', I mean is there an accepted format or structure for these to be documented. I've seen turtles which have been documented a few different ways. Some are very structured and have a lot of information (referencing procedures, forms, personnel, etc.). I have also seen less structured (referencing departments, areas). I was wondering if there is a general format for turtles which is widely used, or if anyone has a very effective way of documenting these.
 

WALLACE

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Is this what you may call a "Turtle Model"

Attached is an image example.
Does this speak to your definition of a "Turtle Model"? :confused:
Wallace.
 

Bigfoot

Involved - Posts
#5
Turtle Example

The Quality Kid said:
By 'model', I mean is there an accepted format or structure for these to be documented. I've seen turtles which have been documented a few different ways. Some are very structured and have a lot of information (referencing procedures, forms, personnel, etc.). I have also seen less structured (referencing departments, areas). I was wondering if there is a general format for turtles which is widely used, or if anyone has a very effective way of documenting these.
Here is an example of a Turtle diagram that shows the correlation of the sections / clauses of the TS specification. This is the format of turtle that was given as an example during the AIAG transition training for TS 16949. The section / clause numbers were tied together by an auditor who works with BSI, (not Randy :) ) and it was used as a tool to conduct internal audits. I found that by using it to train Internal Auditors they developed a better grasp of the system and how it functions, the interfaces / interactions of the different processes.
 

Attachments

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vitorino

#7
Quality Audits

:)

Dear Sirs,

I´m a Engineer working in a Brazilian Automotive Supplier Factory.
Newly we are preparing us for a ISO TS 16949 certification assessment process, and we have been discussing hardly about quality audits issues.
We'd like to share with you one doubt and our considerations about it. It's about the topics 8.2.2.1 until 8.2.2.3 in the norm. We´d like to know your opinion about it.
Are we doing the right thing?

Thanks a lot,

José Victorino
Mechanical Engineer

1 - We know that in ISO TS 2 there are three kinds of audit events: System Audit , Manufactoring Process Audit and Product Audit. The great issue is:
Which cases We have to use each one?

Now, we are understanding this way:

System audit - It´s used for verifying compliance with the norm, customer´s specific requirements and internal requirements. In this case we have to verify the documentation and system structure against the norm.
We use the turtles, norms, internal and external documents.
It´s not necessary to verify all processes at the same time, but we need to verify all the requirements.

Manufactoring Process Audit - in this case we are considering that we have to verify the actual parameters and targets related only with the performance of each fase of manufactoring process (capability, productivity, maintenance, cost). Here we are not verifying the enterely process at the same time, but choosing some fases of manufactoring process during the year.


Product Audit - in this case we are verifying just customer specific requirements like dimensions, functionability, packaging and labeling.
 
#8
The Quality Kid said:
As this is my first post, I hope this question has not been already asked.


I have seen a a few different formats for Turtles being used for a variety of different system models. Is there any specific training just for turtle development? Since this area is very important due to the fact that we are setting up our system with this, is a lead auditor course going to cover what I need to know to do this effectively?
First of all, Welcome to the Cove!!! :bigwave:

A lead auditor course might show you how to audit the process description, but will probably not do an adequate job in showing you how to develop your turtle diagram. Check out Doug P's post and read theat thread. I included a PowerPoint presentation on the types of process maps.
 
#9
The Quality Kid said:
As this is my first post, I hope this question has not been already asked.


I have seen a a few different formats for Turtles being used for a variety of different system models. Is there any specific training just for turtle development? Since this area is very important due to the fact that we are setting up our system with this, is a lead auditor course going to cover what I need to know to do this effectively?
First of all, Welcome to the Cove!!! :bigwave:

A lead auditor course might show you how to audit the process description, but will probably not do an adequate job in showing you how to develop your turtle diagram. Check out Doug P's post and read theat thread. I included a PowerPoint presentation on the types of process maps.

The important thing to remember is that there is no Prescribed method of performing a process map. The reason you see different types is undoubtedly because the different companies have decided they need a certain level of detail. How much detail is strictly up to you.

Hope that helps.


added -- I don't know what I did to cause this double post, but I know it happened as I was typing.
 

Bigfoot

Involved - Posts
#10
db said:
First of all, Welcome to the Cove!!! :bigwave:

A lead auditor course might show you how to audit the process description, but will probably not do an adequate job in showing you how to develop your turtle diagram. Check out Doug P's post and read theat thread. I included a PowerPoint presentation on the types of process maps.

The important thing to remember is that there is no Prescribed method of performing a process map. The reason you see different types is undoubtedly because the different companies have decided they need a certain level of detail. How much detail is strictly up to you.

Hope that helps.


added -- I don't know what I did to cause this double post, but I know it happened as I was typing.
:rolleyes: It happens to me from time to time as well. I call it "Fat Finger" :vfunny:

But the important thing here is that db is correct in that there is no prescribed method by which one has to do them. Turtles, Octopus diagrams, & COPS are all tools for you to use in looking at your processes to assist you in developing the QMS. FWIW - I believe that these things were developed by the people @ AIAG & are most useful for training purposes or as a guide to your Internal Auditors to use in their audits. One company I know of used the turtles from the Internal Audits to show their assessor and the guy loved it. :ko:
IMO a Lead Auditor course benefits you by keeping your focus in development of the system at approximately the same view as that of the guys who will be evaluating it for compliance / certification.
 
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