Forms that need to be used in the audit process for ISO TS 16949

J

jrubio

#11
The "Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002" is obsolete

This is the statement I have seen in IAOB site:

---O---

SI 2 04 Use of the Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002 (Revised, adopted May 2004)

The "Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002" is obsolete as an IATF document, effective 1 June 2004. It is no longer available.

---=----

According to this statement can I use the checklist internally?
 
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J

jrubio

#12
This is the statement I have seen in IAOB site:

---O---

SI 2 04 Use of the Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002 (Revised, adopted May 2004)

The "Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002" is obsolete as an IATF document, effective 1 June 2004. It is no longer available.

---=----

According to this statement can I use the checklist internally?

Obviously the porpuse of using this checklist is to obtain an appoach of Auditing internally ISO TS systems.

I can imagine that an Auditor with more expirience that me, do not need it.
 
J

jrubio

#13
Forms exists and are used by CBs

Howard,
You are right, I was asking for the forms used by CBs which cover all the steps of a process audit.

I used the checklist in the suitable step, just for proofing that I made the audit in cnformance with TS 16949, as stated before the AIAG now do not recommend this checklist but couriously they isssued a check list book (In my oppinion a fantastic book) in 2002 now obsolet.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#14
The check-list is not in use as it caused auditors to be fixed on the clause approach.
The check-list is another way of writing the standard and as such for internal uses it helps to make sure that you have covered all aspects.
There is no problem in using the checklist internally
The strange thing is that the standard requires a check-list for internal audits but does not for external.
 
#15
Howard..........

you are correct. My focus has been helping Javier from an internal audit prespective, since his other posts indicated (to me) that focus.

Javier, did I miss understand? Are you putting an internal audit system toether? If so, my comments still stand. The 'QSA' checklists should be avoided if that's all you are going to use. This kind of checklist may be a simple tool, but they don't help to get an effective audit done, if used alone.

Andy
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#16
Howard Atkins said:
The check-list is not in use as it caused auditors to be fixed on the clause approach.
The check-list is another way of writing the standard and as such for internal uses it helps to make sure that you have covered all aspects.
There is no problem in using the checklist internally
The strange thing is that the standard requires a check-list for internal audits but does not for external.

The checklist is marginally adequate for a "gap-analysis" but not for internal auditing. IATF/IAOB have cancelled the document. It is now obsolete.

The note referencing "checklists" should not be taken too literally. Since that was written, there has been a pretty adamant shift toward a process approach at all Accrediting Bodies.

But, I still have a lot of clients using checklists and flowcharts (and even turtles). I actually believe they help partime internal auditors follow a process approach if they are well designed. But the checklists cannot be a limiter which holds people to a clause based approach.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#17
jrubio said:
This is the statement I have seen in IAOB site:

---O---

SI 2 04 Use of the Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002 (Revised, adopted May 2004)

The "Checklist to ISO/TS 16949:2002" is obsolete as an IATF document, effective 1 June 2004. It is no longer available.

---=----

According to this statement can I use the checklist internally?

Obviously the porpuse of using this checklist is to obtain an appoach of Auditing internally ISO TS systems.

I can imagine that an Auditor with more expirience that me, do not need it.

I suppose you can use the checklist as a gap analysis, but not for the internal audit cycle. Those must be performed follow your processes. If it helps, you may develop a checklist to remind you of the appropriate links and things to look for in a process audit.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#18
Howard Atkins said:
As far as I see Andy you are the only one talking about internal audits.
If the audit is external there is a form for organising the processes whicjh I have seen. The checklist is no longer used.
Each CB has its own forms
Most CBs now use a simple checklist template. More of a form than a checklist. We are required to audit your processes as you define them. I usually request the client's flowcharts or turtles, and follow them.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#19
ralphsulser said:
There were several posted here on the "Cove". Try a seach and you should be able to see several TS16949 audit sheck sheet examples

Be careful, most of them are no longer applicable.

The best is for a company to take their processes, process maps, procedures, and metrics, and wring them out. Look for whatever is not functioning as it should. Those items may be valid findings.
 
J

jrubio

#20
Andy.

You correctly forsee that I currently conduct an internal Audit but I was trying to imitate a formal external audit one even with the formats like:

Planning Audit form
Result of audit form that I saw a one CB used

In my modest oppinion I think that the checklist is a good start for beginners, I am now passing a checklist and I am panic I discovered many non conformances that Auditors did not raise.

I think the use of checklist is a way to have a standarded proof of Auditing, of course that an expirienced Auditor do ot need it.

Thanks to all for your fantactic support and quick response.
 
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