Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Audits

[Stijloor]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

Friends,

Many organizations and their management still live in a dual universe; one that they use on a daily basis, the other one called ISO. It amazes me that after all these years (1987-2008), some still don't understand the intent of the applicable standard and how an organization meets that intent. Training and Consulting Covers, we still have a lot of work to do....



Living in this hotel...and drinking way too much coffee! Forgive me for ranting

Stijloor.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

And, Jan, too many CB auditors who accept these bizarre parallel existences, which can be dismantled during an audit quite easily, if you truly test the system!

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

And, Jan, too many CB auditors who accept these bizarre parallel existences, which can be dismantled during an audit quite easily, if you truly test the system!

Amen!

Jan.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

Nup. I still don't get it.

It's eminently possible - it's even highly desirable! - to have only one world, in which there's just one system and that's what is actually used to run the organisation with, with the aim of satisfying one's customers and doing things with consistency and improving... which can achieve and maintain certification (if desired) without making things into a living hell on earth or one of those impossible-to-work-with, let alone maintain ones, and don't even get me started on bureaucracy-and-paperwork...

Why on earth and how on earth do these parallel, 'separate and definitely not the same' kinds of worlds come into being? Or stay there?

Rhetorical question, folks. As Jan says, there's still lots of work to do. (Best of luck in the hotel. It's hot again today and forecast >43 again tomorrow. Yuk. I'm praying for rain.)

 

[AndyN]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

I'm reminded (not meaning to hi-jack this thread) of a situation where I was doing a 'gap' audit. I was interviewing a maintenance supervisor and he kept saying 'do you mean what we do for ISO, or what we really do?'

After four or five times of trying to get him to tell me what their process was and getting that response, I could have slapped him! No wonder then, that I found all kinds of desperate maintenance issues, including the fact that they'd sprayed the surroundings (cars, houses etc) with veg. starch due to a maintenance issue!

 

[JaneB]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

No wonder then, that I found all kinds of desperate maintenance issues, including the fact that they'd sprayed the surroundings (cars, houses etc) with veg. starch due to a maintenance issue!

No wonder at all. Just the sorts of failures that occur when the 'quality system' isn't a living, breathing everyday one.

 

[qualitymanager]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

Nup. I still don't get it.

It's eminently possible - it's even highly desirable! - to have only one world, in which there's just one system and that's what is actually used to run the organisation with, with the aim of satisfying one's customers and doing things with consistency and improving... which can achieve and maintain certification (if desired) without making things into a living hell on earth or one of those impossible-to-work-with, let alone maintain ones, and don't even get me started on bureaucracy-and-paperwork...
<snip>

That's just crazy-talk!!

Or that's what most ppl would say: "We can't actually live the way the standard intends us to".

 

[qualitymanager]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

But I'd wager you probably know Sean Victor or know of him.........

<snip>

Sure - as I alluded to in another post, we live in a very small pond here.

And Sean is the biggest export in Quality Management from our little country. I did my Lead Auditor training with him as the facilitator back in '99 (amazing that BSI could have gotten accreditation to the FDIS!)

Seems like you big fish all know each other (j/k).

 

[Randy]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

I did my Lead Auditor training with him as the facilitator back in '99 (amazing that BSI could have gotten accreditation to the FDIS!)

Seems like you big fish all know each other (j/k).

Did pretty good didn't I?

I taught the class that was audited by the RABQSA.....We had good students and the auditor was pretty thourough...No N/C's btw.

Sean is a very good friend....and I really just like to listen to him.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

<snip>(Best of luck in the hotel. It's hot again today and forecast >43 again tomorrow. Yuk. I'm praying for rain.)

Thank you Jane!



I am in another part of the Southeastern USA, in another hotel...still drinking too much coffee, but now my dear wife is with me......

Today is our 38th anniversary....

Jan.