Future of APQP and PPAP in Doubt? 2005 Update

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#11
Just goes to show - the buzz words come and go, but the basic good sense method remains with a new name. I suppose when we are all confined to padded rooms in our dotage, this incessant name changing won't seem quite as frustrating as it does today.
 
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S

SteelWoman

#12
Wes Bucey said:
Just goes to show - the buzz words come and go, but the basic good sense method remains with a new name. I suppose when we are all confined to padded rooms in our dotage, this incessant name changing won't seem quite as frustrating as it does today.
Ohhhhhh, that sounds wonderful... a nice, quiet room with comfy padding, away from QS/TS/PPAP/APQP/FMEA/SOB.... no stress, just a quiet place where nice men in white feed me and change my straightjacket every once in a while.

sigh......
:bonk:
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#13
Contemporary comments? All I really see is the continued trend to customer specific requirements.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#14
Wes Bucey said:
Just goes to show - the buzz words come and go, but the basic good sense method remains with a new name. I suppose when we are all confined to padded rooms in our dotage, this incessant name changing won't seem quite as frustrating as it does today.
One change is the move to Interim PPAP's.
Ford and GM have schemes and the 4th Edition AIAG PPAP handbook is to be published, for the last 2 years.
I think that this is due to time to market everyone is trying to approve what in the past might have been regarded as prototypes as "semi production"

APQP as such is a viable road map for design and has no real relationship to any changes.
All the stages are important and should be done with or without a customer requirement
 
A

Al Dyer

#15
I like the term "semi-production"; does it show that automotive is giving the supplier base a break; or that automotive realizes their approval process is lacking?

For years suppliers have shown superior knowledge of basic quality and process essentials while automitive are ridding themselves of high paid, experienced quality professionals. They have built a huge approval process in which new parts are needed faster than they can be formally approved for production. Either way I belive the suppler wins.

Al...
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#16
Al Dyer said:
I like the term "semi-production"; does it show that automotive is giving the supplier base a break; or that automotive realizes their approval process is lacking?


Al...
Thanks for approving my term.
I have been involved with a big tier 1 and an one of the big 3 running in circles for interim PPAP approvals which in the old days would have been called C or D samples.
Interim PPAP from non production tools and non production assembly lines and total "semi- production" of a couple of hundred parts.
 
#17
Tom W said:
Interesting points, but do we see the US based AIAG books going away? Do we really think the big three can agree to something like that? Sounds like a typical big 3 situation that make more work for suppliers and less work for them. They pick and choose what they themselves will follow; yet demand a lot more from their suppliers. Strange thing is their suppliers are actually their customers????
I own a Ford E150 Conversion Van (for towing and travelling) and a Chrysler PT Cruiser (it looks cool). I can tell you that now that there is a Toyota that with a >10k lb. towing capacity and the big three Nippon makers all make cars just as cool as the PT, I will not buy another GMChryslerFord product until they register their entire operations to ISO/TS 16949:2002. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
D

D.Scott

#18
Icy Mountain said:
I own a Ford E150 Conversion Van (for towing and travelling) and a Chrysler PT Cruiser (it looks cool). I can tell you that now that there is a Toyota that with a >10k lb. towing capacity and the big three Nippon makers all make cars just as cool as the PT, I will not buy another GMChryslerFord product until they register their entire operations to ISO/TS 16949:2002. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Their entire supply chain is already operating under ISO16949. At least, the supply chain is mandated to tier 1 certification and lower tier compliance. For the OEM to register their own operations wouldn't really be that productive as they can only be defined as "the customer". Most of the requirements are specifically for "the organization" which supplies to "the customer". The requirements of ISO/TS 16949 don't really apply to the OEM.

Dave
 
#19
I am the customer. I am a TS subscriber. I want a full PPAP, APQP, FMEA, MSA, etc. for my next automobile. I want to see there certificate of registration to TS. Then, maybe, I'll sign off on a PSW and buy one of their vehicles.
-Ice
 
R

Randy Stewart

#20
I just asked for an inspection report and got a blank stare. I agree with you Icy, I will not buy another "American B3/UAW" manufactured vehicle. My mom just bought a new Ford 500 2 months ago. Already, the side molding has fallen off and lenses on the cruise control and stereo controlslocated on the steering wheel have cracked and now there are little white lights that burn right in your eyes!

So as their customers why don't they hear our demand for "ZERO DEFECTS"!
 
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