Gage R&R and Fliers

  • Thread starter jane_ackerman - 2010
  • Start date
J

jane_ackerman - 2010

#1
We have just completed a 16 characteristic, variable R&R on an automated gage (2 operator / 3 trial / 10 piece).

In all actuality, these are 16 separate R&R's.
Each operator had 1 flier. These filers were not on the same characteristic, nor were they the same sample part number.
I am confident that it is acceptable to replace one flier on a study.

My question is for hypothetical future reference:
How many readings can be replaced (per operator and/or total) in a single study before they are no longer considered "fliers"?

I can't find anything on this in the MSA 3rd Edition.

Thanks, Jane
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
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#2
jane_ackerman said:
We have just completed a 16 characteristic, variable R&R on an automated gage (2 operator / 3 trial / 10 piece).

In all actuality, these are 16 separate R&R's.
Each operator had 1 flier. These filers were not on the same characteristic, nor were they the same sample part number.
I am confident that it is acceptable to replace one flier on a study.

My question is for hypothetical future reference:
How many readings can be replaced (per operator and/or total) in a single study before they are no longer considered "fliers"?

I can't find anything on this in the MSA 3rd Edition.

Thanks, Jane
There is no hard-and-fast rule because each situation is different. When the results tell you that something's not right, you have to investigate and find out what it is. "Fliers" are measurement results that are statistically unlikely to happen under "normal" circumstances, and might be the result of random error or assignable cause(s). You shouldn't just throw them out and recalculate unless you're reasonably sure that they're just randomly spurious. In the case you cite, I would first look for relationships between the various operators' errors.
 
J

jane_ackerman - 2010

#3
Cause was assignable

I absolutely agree with you - it must be a special cause to throw any flier out.
In this case, we found debris on the part surface that was being measured. Being only a 5 micron tolerance, this made all the difference in the world. The part was cleaned with a lint free material (suede) and re-checked.
Thanks for your input!
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
jane_ackerman said:
I absolutely agree with you - it must be a special cause to throw any flier out.
In this case, we found debris on the part surface that was being measured. Being only a 5 micron tolerance, this made all the difference in the world. The part was cleaned with a lint free material (suede) and re-checked.
Thanks for your input!
You're welcome. Be sure you use what you learned to provide guidance for people who have to make those measurements in "live" situations.
 
R

Rob Nix

#5
I am always concerned about "fliers", and we never "throw them out" without knowing the reason. If you get just one per study, remember that the study is a small sample of a future population.

If the flier is the result of a burr, or contamination, or improper location / alignment on a fixture, it tells you something about the measurement system's weaknesses (which might possibly be alleviated by an additional step in the instructions). Later, in production, that occassional errant reading could result in a costly incorrect decision.

The key is - know the reason. If you don't, it will likely come back to bite you later.
 
D

Dave Dunn

#6
jane_ackerman said:
I absolutely agree with you - it must be a special cause to throw any flier out.
In this case, we found debris on the part surface that was being measured. Being only a 5 micron tolerance, this made all the difference in the world. The part was cleaned with a lint free material (suede) and re-checked.
Thanks for your input!
It seems in this case that the cleaning method could be incorporated into the documented measurement procedure to eliminate the root cause and help to assure that your R&R is going to represent future output of the measurement system.
 
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