Gage R&R Form in Excel for Calculating Gauge R&R - Attached

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#61
Hi all.

Could you, please, help me, how to set up GRR for destructive testing method?

I have done pull test method on the samples.
I can do pull test once on one sample. Then the sample is destroyed.
How can I set up GRR study?

Is it correct to prepare samples by the following?:
30 samples measured by 1. operator
30 another samples measured by 2. operator
30 another samples measured by 3.operator?
The samples are made from the same process (1 welding machine), produced one by one during short time.
How can I calculate EV, AV, GRR correctly?
Zuzka

Zuzka,

Please refear to attached file for informations of how to perform MSA for destructive testing.

Regards
 

Attachments

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Z

Zuzka

#62
Zuzka - can you post your data? It will be easier for us to help you with this if we can use your data to demonstrate the concepts
Hello.
This is the file with the measured data.
The data were measured by 3 operators.
The samples were destroyed after the tests, so each measurings were made using the new samples from the process.
Could you, please, help me, how to evaluate GRR for this type of measuring?
Z.
 

Attachments

Z

Zuzka

#64
Zuzka - can you post your data? It will be easier for us to help you with this if we can use your data to demonstrate the concepts
you cannot calculate Pp from this data*. Pp is the actual process variation as quantified by the standard deviation: Pp = (USL-LSL)/6*SD
BUT Pp is not directly useful for Gage R&R. It is the SD that is directly useful. If you have historical data that you know is representative of your actual process variation you can substitute that SD for the PART VARIANCE instead of calculating it from the GAGE R&R study parts.

*IF your R&R study parts were randomly selected from a portionof the process that exhibited the full range of variation that your process has historically demonstrated, then you could use the study SD to calculate Pp. BUT most inexperienced people don't select their R&R parts in this manner.
Thanks for the explanation.
This is the file with the measured data from my MSA study.
How would you explain these results? Was this study set up good?
Z.
 

Attachments

M

Mr.Happy

#65
Hi Z,
I noticed that in your Study results the NDC is only 3.:(
This should be at least 5.:agree1:
This could mean that the range in dimensions of the parts is to small or the resolution of your measuring equipment is not precise enough?
 
Z

Zuzka

#66
Hi Z,
I noticed that in your Study results the NDC is only 3.:(
This should be at least 5.:agree1:
This could mean that the range in dimensions of the parts is to small or the resolution of your measuring equipment is not precise enough?
Thank you for your answer.
I will try to improve the measurement system for these parts and I will change the sampling process.

Could you help me, how to explain the results of TV?
Which value is the best for TV? Is there some "good" value for TV and also for PV, which are recommended?
Zuzka
 
V

vishalkifi

#67
Re: Gage R&R Form in Excel for calculating gauge R&R attached

Hai everybody,

one of my customer has given the following point on MSA,kindly elaborate

and send the 4th edition format

"GRR is done to monitor measurement capabilities however R&R is calculated in terms of total variation instead of part tolerance resulting low % GRR. "

Thanks in advance
VISHALKIFI
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#68
Re: Gage R&R Form in Excel for calculating gauge R&R attached

Hai everybody,

one of my customer has given the following point on MSA,kindly elaborate

and send the 4th edition format

"GRR is done to monitor measurement capabilities however R&R is calculated in terms of total variation instead of part tolerance resulting low % GRR. "

Thanks in advance
VISHALKIFI
You don't say who made the observation and under what circumstances, but whether percent of variation or percent of tolerance is used depends on the purpose of the measurement system. If it's used for process control, percent of variation should be used, and percent of tolerance is used if the device is used for inspection.

Not sure what you mean by "send the 4th edition format."
 
V

vishalkifi

#69
Hi.
Marc Smith

Thanks for your quick response.

During one of customer audit, this point was register as a NC

We had done MSA for all the major critical parameter but auditor said that you have done G R&R to monitor measurement capabilities

but R&R is calculated in terms of total variation instead of part tolerance resulting low % GRR.

I couldn't understand the auditor point of view

also I need 4th Edition MSA xls Format to close this NC

Pls do the needful.

by
VISHAL KIFI
 
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