Gage R&R on plating thickness - What do I use as the total tolerance?

B

billsfan

#1
Hi guys!
I need to do a Gage R&R on plating thickness. The spec calls for .00035 min.
My question is, what do I use as the total tolerance?????
Thanks in advance for the help!!!
P.S. GO SABRES!!!!(Are you out there Batman?)
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
B

Brian Dowsett

#2
Billsfan,
Why not do the study in the normal way and express measurement system variation as a proportion of total study variation (or use your process variation (6sigma)if it's known).

Regards

Brian
 
J

Jim Biz

#3
Wouldn't want to point you in the wrong direction - but I can tell ou how we view it in our place...

All our plating specs seem to be print identified on a similar basis 3um or 5um MIN only- no max - how we approach that is to determinte what the final "fitup" dimension after plating is supposed to be and view that as our upper limit.

Hope this helps, What's a SABER anyway <grin>
 
J

Jim Biz

#4
Oh now I know what a Saber is *GRIN* was going to ask ya why you were trying to gage the plating thickness on one - HA

As far as "Fitup" quite often when we see a print with a "Min" plating spec it is accompanied with a "Max" diameter after plate call out That gives us an idea of what can be used as a high/low for reading purposes .. But sounds like you have a good handle on where you want the readings to be.
 
B

billsfan

#5
Brian & Jim,
Thanks for your help.
First, I should explain that this is not our process, it is one of our suppliers. I needed a gage R&R for PPAP requirement and our supplier called to ask what total tolerance to use on the Gage R&R form. This supplier did a small (30 pieces) capability study.

Brian, should I use 6 sigma of this small study? X bar chart from 30 piece study yielded a mean =.00044, sigma = .0000189 and range=.000031.

Jim, I'm not sure what you mean by;
"determining what the "fitup" dimension after plating is". The part in question is cylindrical and parts are added to both the inside and outside. I ended up using the spec itself (.00035) and ended up with a Gage R&R of 9.15%. I think that I'll use this and argue the merits at a later date!
And Jim, to answer your question: "What's a Sabre?" I'm refering to the Buffalo Sabres a National Hockey League team on the cusp of missing the playoffs!

Again all, thanks for your help!
Peace......out!
 
B

Batman

#6
The only qualification I would add to Jim's post is that sometimes plating thickness has little to do with the feature tolerance. For example the plating may be .00035 min, and the feature tolerance is +/- .010. You won't have that much plating ever.

For billsfan, perhaps as an alternative to his mini capability, I would question the supplier and determine the absolute maximum plating expected from his process. The mini capability is for that batch only. He should be able to calculate this either from his current / time / mass values or maybe from long term data and determine a +3s. This could be established as an upper tolerance.

AND, I waited until today to answer this:
Who won in 13 seconds in overtime last night??? IN BUFFALO??? GO PENS!!!
 
D
#7
Don't forget-the Gage R & R is on your gage-not your parts. The gage hasn't been mentioned here so I'm a bit confused......
 
B

Brian Dowsett

#8
If you know your historical process capability this could be used in the calculations. In this case just carry out calculations as per the QS9000(AIAG)book and you will get a figure for total gauge variation and one for part to part variation.
Plotting the results will hopefully give you tight control limits on the X chart, with lots of points out of control.

Brian
 
B

Batman

#9
Yes Dawn, the R&R is on the gage. But you usually report a R&r as a percent of tolerance, and this is what billsfan was asking - what is the tolerance. Typical plating specs state some minimum, and no real maximum. In the case billsfan is speaking, theoretically electroplate could go forever, but there are some process settings that determine that you get at least a .00035 thickness, but with those settings what is the expected maximum plating thickness in the batch / process? This was one way to get some form of a tolerance to which one could compare the actual R&R.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D Gage R&R for an Xray instrument for measuring plating thickness Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
S Plating Internal Threads in Tapped Holes - Go Gage no longer enters Manufacturing and Related Processes 23
B Gage calibration frequency, ISO and IATF - What are the requirements Calibration Frequency (Interval) 3
R Determining Uncertainty from Gage R&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
C Correct Calibration Method for Dial Depth Gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
C Gage Block Wringing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
B Gage R&R with NDC=1 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 19
S Type 1 Gage R&R or something else? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 6
G Should I perform Gage R&R only at the beginning of a new project? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
V Thread Plug Gage Pitch GO Diameter out of spec AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 8
G Gage R&R - Where am I going wrong? Part of a FAIR submission (Aerospace) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
R Gage R&R Excel templates Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
K Gage R&R with more than 3 appraisers Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
Anerol C Gage R&R Template AIAG 4th Edition IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
T Attributes SPC study - Attributive control (Go gage) Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 5
S Capability or Gage R&R Study for Leak Tester? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 15
N % Tolerance - Type 1 study on the gages, then a gage R&R (ANOVA) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
M Definitive answer on Type 1 vs Type 2 vs Type 3 Gage Study Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 0
V Gage Management and Gage R&R Software General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
D Gage R&R Study on Load Cells - Large chemical blending tanks IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
B Minitab Type 1 Gage Study on True Position Question Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 1
S Gage R&R on alloy Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 10
8 Need Help - Runout - Function Gage Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 7
L Gage R&R studies for identical Devices - Need to confirm the requirement to perform them Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 2
G Stab Pin Size For Check Gage Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
E Functional Gage for TOP applied at RFS Design and Development of Products and Processes 5
F No reproducibility Error in Gage R&R? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 4
M Template for Attribute Gage R & R wanted Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
G Warning about Deltronic Gage Pins - The "Certification of Accuracy" document General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 13
A Gage type 1 study on CMM Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 2
Q Gage R&R for Instant Measurement Machine Manufacturing and Related Processes 6
M Gage R&R with large inter part variance - Torque Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
D Do we need normal data for gage r&r studies? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
D Do I need part variation while doing Destructive Variable Gage R&R MSA study Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 19
S Gage R&R Standard Deviations Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
J Informational Gage R&R: Swapping operators Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
S Gage R & R for large amount of inspections IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
S Ring Gage Thermal Expansion General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
L Gage R&R for test precision or uncertainty prediction? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
S Minor diameter of threaded ring gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
A Does Torque Gage Need Validation? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 4
J Ignoring a Failed Gage R&R and upcoming external audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 22
R Scaling a Gage R&R - 2 holding fixtures each with 10 nests Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
B Gage R&R Acceptable (10-30%), deduct Total Variation from Tolerance Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 12
apestate Inexpensive Gage Blocks for small aerospace startup shop General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
F Position tolerance check gage manufacturing Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 8
B Informational Expanded Gage R&R Analysis using Minitab Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 18
S Interesting Discussion Threaded ring gage calibration and tendonitis in the elbows General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 8
A Federal 700B-26 Gage Block Comparator is not reading properly General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
O Gage Simulator for a Pilot at RFS Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom