Gage R&R on Visual Inspection

paccnc

Starting to get Involved
#11
Thank you Bev for the information, as always very helpful and giving me some food for thought. It also gives me some angles to approach upper management with.
 
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Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#12
But how is that solved by a gage R&R?
It does not solve the issue, but it does illuminate the problem and show how bad it really is. We had to go to a lot of lengths to solve the problem (e.g., color coding, physical changes, bar coding, packing on-line, etc.).
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#13
So we have 3 inspections: Final inspection, a packaging inspection and a dock audit.

I can see why the auditor asked for MSAs for these ‘controls’ as I will explain below. I do NOT agree that the OP or anyone should perform a ‘rigged’ test just to check the box and ‘satisfy’ the requirement. This is not only wasteful and dishonest, it sidesteps a real opportunity to assess these controls and improve - or prove - the actual effectiveness of these inspections. OR perhaps even demonstrate that they are ineffective and change them or eliminate them as waste. And isn’t that our goal as quality professionals?

From the responses I am assuming pacnc - and others - have no issues with an attribute study on the final inspection? This clearly falls in the realm of requiring a “Gage R&R” as it is a primary means of control and visual inspection is notoriously difficult to effectively implement. Understanding the repeatability of inspectors will aid in improving the effectiveness of the inspection.

The packaging inspection is a slightly different beast. As I understand it from the OP’s description, it is a ‘self check’ that the packager is packing the correct part and applying the correct label. This doesn’t fit the ‘final inspection’ model as it is not independent and isn’t looking for the traditional ‘defect on a part’. It is looking for an incorrect part and/or incorrect label. As Miner points out a ‘defect’ here is just as bad as a ‘defective part’. And it’s not uncommon. I recently dealt with a similar process where the wrong label was put on two different chemicals and thus placed in the wrong inventory locations. These chemical were then picked and provided to manufacturing who luckily determined that the wrong chemicals were used in the manufacturing of two different products. The products did not pass QC testing. We caught it but the scrap was very costly and if they had escaped to the field it would have been even worse. This kind of ‘visual’ inspection doesn’t really require a typical attribute study, it really only requires an honest assessment of the opportunity for making a mistake. And then taking the appropriate actions to PREVENT the ability to make a mistake. It is important here to remember that a “gage R&R” is only one tool for accomplishing a Measurement SYSTEM assessment. Not all information and/or knowledge can be reduced to a single ‘score’, nor should it.

As for the dock audit, I would take a different approach to the MSA. In these cases the MSA should focus more on the sample size than on the visual effectiveness. A Dock audit is usually a secondary inspection; or as I like to call it “a last desparate attempt to catch an escape” :rolleyes: Usually the sample size of a dock audit is what contributes most to the ineffectiveness of the audit to catch anything. Unless the defect rate is really high a small sample size woul not have much chance to catch anything. And in this case it would be better to improve the upstream final inspection or better yet the process(es) creating the defects. If you have a low defect rate escaping form your manufacturing process a small sample size is usually just a waste of time. Again this MSA is not a typical Gage R&R, but can be very informative...

Great so what would you do?

The packaging scenario is repeated at thousands of companies. Labels are put on packages and at some point they are inspected. How? Visually -- the "inspector" verifies the contents and the label match. What MSA addresses that?
 

Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#14
Golfman25 is absolutely right, MSA for visual inspection is huge waste of time. Let's focus on corrective actions for mislabelling and 11th loop of retraining inspectors to check labels properly.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#15
Great so what would you do?

The packaging scenario is repeated at thousands of companies. Labels are put on packages and at some point they are inspected. How? Visually -- the "inspector" verifies the contents and the label match. What MSA addresses that?
To repeat myself, A traditional gage R&R that results in some 'score' would be highly ineffective in assessing the ability of the person to detect an incorrect label. In that you are correct and that is what I said. A 'measurement' system assessment however (which is a superset of a Gage R&R) will point out the weak areas of anyone's ability to detect an incorrect label or part. I look for the conditions and opportunities for placing the wrong label and part and then not detecting. I then take action to 'mistake proof' both the labeling/part picking process and the ability to detect any defect. And then I will challenge the system to ensure that it is effective by trying to create defects (circumventing the mistake proofing) and inserting 'defects' to see if the operator can detect them. Not a highly sophisticated test but a fairly robust one.

If your issue is that you think the auditor won't understand the logic of that approach and insist on some 'score' by some canned method, My response would be to discuss it openly and honestly and most of the time these guys will get it. If you are in a situation where this isn't going to happen I would suggest getting a job in a different company or a different industry because life is to short to do otherwise.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#16
To repeat myself, A traditional gage R&R that results in some 'score' would be highly ineffective in assessing the ability of the person to detect an incorrect label. In that you are correct and that is what I said. A 'measurement' system assessment however (which is a superset of a Gage R&R) will point out the weak areas of anyone's ability to detect an incorrect label or part. I look for the conditions and opportunities for placing the wrong label and part and then not detecting. I then take action to 'mistake proof' both the labeling/part picking process and the ability to detect any defect. And then I will challenge the system to ensure that it is effective by trying to create defects (circumventing the mistake proofing) and inserting 'defects' to see if the operator can detect them. Not a highly sophisticated test but a fairly robust one.

If your issue is that you think the auditor won't understand the logic of that approach and insist on some 'score' by some canned method, My response would be to discuss it openly and honestly and most of the time these guys will get it. If you are in a situation where this isn't going to happen I would suggest getting a job in a different company or a different industry because life is to short to do otherwise.
Problem is the OP is boxed in. He made up a control plan and used the word "visual" in the measurement technique box. Auditor comes in and says according to xyz, everything in the control plan needs an MSA (and in this case the clown specifically said gage r&r) and refers him to the AIAG book. More likely than not your approach, while effective, won't fly with this guy as it's not in the book and not really "statistical." This is a case where one needs to be "creative" to work around the nonsense.
 
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