Gage R&R (Repeatability and Reproducibility) for Dummies

N

nancichan

#11
Thanks everyone for the help! Caster, your notes sound like they would give me exactly the information I am searching for. Please can you get them to me somehow (email/scans)?

Many Thanks
x
 
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B

Bpoole

#12
No known value

Can anyone give me an example of how to do a MSA study on a measurement tool with no know value. We use pyrometers to record the temperature of aluminum. We cannot control the temperature and therefore have no value to measure our temperature against. The TS standard states that we shall conduct analyse on each type of measurements referenced in the control plan. Any ideas?? :
Thanks
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#13
Bpoole said:
Can anyone give me an example of how to do a MSA study on a measurement tool with no know value. We use pyrometers to record the temperature of aluminum. We cannot control the temperature and therefore have no value to measure our temperature against. The TS standard states that we shall conduct analyse on each type of measurements referenced in the control plan. Any ideas?? :
Thanks
Why do you measure and record values you can't control, and don't care about? In other words, why is it in the control plan if you're not controlling it? What does your control plan entry say to do?
 
D

deltawillow

#14
I am sorry Ron but this file contains the 2nd edition constants that have been changed.
This file has the correct constants as well as other useful forms.
There are also other forms in the attachments but please check the constants
e.g K1 now = 0.8862 for 2 in the past 4.56
can you tell me where I can find the new d constants in the appropriately updated table - all my old R&R literature uses the previous edition's. ALso, what is the rationale for such a large change in the constants? prety radical change for statistical constants ( that I thought were as unchangeable as gravity or acceleration)
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#15
can you tell me where I can find the new d constants in the appropriately updated table - all my old R&R literature uses the previous edition's. ALso, what is the rationale for such a large change in the constants? prety radical change for statistical constants ( that I thought were as unchangeable as gravity or acceleration)
This thread is 3 years old, but maybe someone might be able to help.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#16
D2 for 2 Trials = 1.128, for 3 Trials = 1.693
D3 for 2 Trials = 0.853, for 3 Trials = .0888
D4 for 2 Trials = 3.27, for 3 Trials = 2.58

The 3rd edition made two notable changes:
  1. The first was to change from 5.15s (standard deviations) (99%) to 6s (99.73%)
  2. The second was to simplify the formula by omitting the multiply by 6 and divide by 6s to simply divide by s.
 
V

Voyteck79

#17
special procesess (painting, plasma coatings, brazing)

Few questions:
1. Can i use 10 simulated samples (simulation parts, scrap parts) instead running parts?
2. what is the procedure if i have tolerance min or max?
3. what measure must be write if: tolerance for dia is .755-.775, act dia is .7555-.7745 (his i sexample)? "big dispertion"

these are imprtant question forme to start doing this :truce:

regards!!!
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#18
What will the gage be used for, inspection or process control? The answers to your questions depend on the answer.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#20
Since this gage is only used for inspection, you should use the P/T Ratio (% Tolerance) metric for assessing acceptability of the gage. This compares the gage error to tolerance. Process variation is not part of the calculation, so the dimensions of the parts are not terribly important unless the might affect how the operator may inspect them. It is good practice to select parts the use the entire range of the tolerance, but this is not mandatory.

1) As long as operators will measurethe simulated parts the same way they would measure an actual part, yes. Be careful that this is a correct asumption.

2) Do you mean a unilateral (1-sided) tolerance? You may want to use the PME (Probable Measurement Error) propsed by Donald Wheeler. The P/T Ratio has not been adapted to unilateral tolerances.

3) This sounds like Guard Banding. That is a business choice. Most do not unless the dimension is critical.
 
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