Gage R&R Required on Micrometers and Calipers?

D

dbulak

#1
micrometers and calipers

I know someone has the answers, but need to know if GRR's need to be done on micrometers and calipers under the new standard? If it is, how does one do perform it if they are digital and the operator sees the reading instead of actually reading them. Would like an expert opinion.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
A

Al Dyer

#2
Other than ISO, I don't know of any standard that would not require you to perform R&R on a type of gage used to monitor accept products and processes.

Assuming proper calibration there would be no difference between performing R&R on digital or manual gages. The goal is to measure operator and gage variation. For better or worse, I believe we are experiencing the final days of non-digital gages.

Any gage guru comments? I'm somewhat limited to auto and manufacturing trains of thought.
 

Atul Khandekar

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
The goal is to measure operator and gage variation
Al has said it all. The readings may vary due to the methods used by the operators. How is the job handled/held? With digital instruments, the possibility of error occuring during 'reading off' is eliminated. So the Appraiser Variaton may reduce.
-Atul
 
R

Ryan Wilde

#4
I've done uncertainty studies on calipers and micrometers, including the electronic ones, and an GR&R is very appropriate. The switch point of electronic readouts, combined with different operators, will produce measurable R&R results.

Calipers have slight amounts of play in the carriage/bar mating surfaces, and different operators will naturally use different closure forces to obtain measurements.

Micrometers will also show variance from operator to operator due to closure force (even with a ratchet or friction drive). Another issue with micrometers is the mating of the rotor to the spindle, which can become loose over time and show a repeatability issue.

One more log for the fire - different manufacturers provide different results, including electronic units. This would suggest that a GR&R would be necessary for each brand, each type, and each size of device.

Ryan
 
T

tomvehoski

#5
Uncertainty measurements for 17025 can go beyond just R&R. R&R is probably the most important (and largest) component of uncertainty, but there may be other factors that contribute such as temperature (expansion of gage and part measured), variance from nominal in the standard used to calibrate the gage (i.e. 1" gage block was actually 1.000002") and so on. Another component is the least significant digit error on a digital gage. Rounding error could be 50% of the LSD.

Check out www.proficiency.org. There is an uncertainty calculator that may have examples to help you.

Much of the requirement depends on if you are using the gages to accept production parts (gage R&R should be enough), or are a laboratory certifying parts for a second party under 17025 (need to go beyond).

Tom
 
R

Ryan Wilde

#6
Tom,

The uncertainty calculator has been updated, and you can get v3.0 at http://www.agilent.com/metrology/download3.shtml . It is a major upgrade, and as you know, v2.5 was a great program. The new software easily rivals any commercial software for functions and useability, and this is STILL FREEWARE!!!! :D BTW, Chris Grachanen is my hero.

Ryan
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D Gage R&R required on 6" rules, tape rules, verniers or micrometers? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
S Unique ID Required for Thread Gage Replacements? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
B Is Gage R&R required on a 100% Dimensional Layout? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
DietCokeofEvil How is it that gage manufacturers are not required to be accredited? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
J Variation (using ANOVA method) Required for Gage R&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
P Gage Accuracy required for a Measurement Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 1
T When is GRR (Gage R&R) required? AIAG MSA Manual Version 4 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 19
bobdoering Gage Resolution Required for SPC! Imported Legacy Blogs 0
S Critique Required on GR&R (Gage R&R) Training Presentation Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 12
J Attribute Gage Studies - What gages are required to have Measurement Systems Analysis IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
M Gage pin calibration - Actual calibration readings required on the calibration cert General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
D Gage R&R Frequency required by TS 16949 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 33
V Gage Calibration Stickers in harsh environments - Are Calibration Stickers Required General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 14
S Calibration required? We buy part of our machined parts - Supplier gage calibration? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
J Samples Selection in Gage R&R - Number of Decimal Places Required? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
M Gauge (Gage) R&R study - Samples required from full tolerance spread? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
K During Gage R&R, is calculation of ndc value required? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 24
A Is GR&R (Gage R&R) required for simple attribute gauges like plug gauges? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
H How often is Attribute Gage R&R required to be performed? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 10
M Gage R&R for effort required to actuate the horn switch with a load cell Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
A Ford Gage R&R - Required Number of Appraisers per MSA Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
B Is Gage R&R required in a small company by ISO 9001? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
K Fixture Gage R&R - What is Required? Fixture part of the measurement system? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
P What gage studies are required for PPAP? APQP and PPAP 5
C Correct Calibration Method for Dial Depth Gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
C Gage Block Wringing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
B Gage R&R with NDC=1 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 19
S Type 1 Gage R&R or something else? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 6
G Should I perform Gage R&R only at the beginning of a new project? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
V Thread Plug Gage Pitch GO Diameter out of spec AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 8
G Gage R&R - Where am I going wrong? Part of a FAIR submission (Aerospace) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
R Gage R&R Excel templates Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
K Gage R&R with more than 3 appraisers Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
Anerol C Gage R&R Template AIAG 4th Edition IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
T Attributes SPC study - Attributive control (Go gage) Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 5
S Capability or Gage R&R Study for Leak Tester? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 15
N % Tolerance - Type 1 study on the gages, then a gage R&R (ANOVA) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
M Definitive answer on Type 1 vs Type 2 vs Type 3 Gage Study Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 0
V Gage Management and Gage R&R Software General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
D Gage R&R Study on Load Cells - Large chemical blending tanks IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
B Minitab Type 1 Gage Study on True Position Question Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 1
S Gage R&R on alloy Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 10
8 Need Help - Runout - Function Gage Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 7
L Gage R&R studies for identical Devices - Need to confirm the requirement to perform them Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 2
G Stab Pin Size For Check Gage Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
E Functional Gage for TOP applied at RFS Design and Development of Products and Processes 5
F No reproducibility Error in Gage R&R? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 4
M Template for Attribute Gage R & R wanted Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
G Warning about Deltronic Gage Pins - The "Certification of Accuracy" document General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 13
A Gage type 1 study on CMM Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom