Gage R&R Short Study vs. Long Study vs. Other Studies

Miner

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#11
I would have to see the structure of your experiment, but correctly done, you can use GLM to analyze the results. You will need to properly identify the parts and operators as random factors.

No. S is not the sigma for your gage. You will need to have Minitab report the Variance Components.

See my file attached to my blog for Wheeler's Honest Gage Study. The GRR Report worksheet has a Variance Components table that pulls data from the hidden worksheet ANOVA. These variance components are the variances for the gage. Note that Repeatability is the error term.

Regarding the ISO-plot, it depends on what you are using it for. Youden's original intent was to compare different laboratories, which have different operators and test equipment. The ISO-plot can be used in a similar fashion to compare two different gages used to measure the same parts. You may use the same or different operators depending on the purpose of your study.

Shainin's use of the ISO-plot was a single operator and gage with repeated measurements. This was to validate the gage for a study. Normally a single operator can use the gage during the course of a study.
 
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Bev D

Heretical Statistician
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#12
let's be careful about using the term ISO-plot. This is a service marked term for a square scatter plot that calculates DR without calcualting the Intraclass correlation coefficient...

The truth is that a Youden plot is nothing more than a square scatter diagram that enables the visual display of matched pair data such as that in a gage R&R study. It can be used to display any matched pair data. There is no law of physics or man that precludes it's use.

*I* use it for studying all manner of gagae R&R data. the repeatability of a single operator, the reproducibility of numerous operators, the bias between different types of gages and the difference between different locations.

If you look at the tab in my spreadsheet named gage reproducibility you will see how it takes the standard format of repeated measures for mulitple operators and assess each operators repeatability and then the group reproducibility...all you have to do is enter the data.


yes, L37 is σe, the measurement error of the measurement system (not just the gage)

As for dynamic characteristics, the best approach is to perfrom the gage R&R in the standard manner, never assume that you aren't homogenous until you have data to prove it. an approach that I use fro functional characteristics is to ensure that the repeated measuremetns or tests are performed under the 'same conditions' to minimize teh variation in the function so I can see the measurement error...
 

MasterBB

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#13
Thanks a lot..

Here is the attached data.

If I am doing the GLM, how to calculate the variance components?

If Sigma E (L37) is my Sigma for my measurement system (which includes, R&R, Bias, stability, etc.) What is my Gage Sigma That is limited to R&R when I have unbalance design.
Also, I've attempted to use Type I Gage Study which you must include the Tolerances (some case I am not interested in the Tolerance)... Different issue

The question is to be able to analyze historical tested data that were never structured for a proper MSA Matrix. And I would like to calculate the St. Dev of the Gage (Reap & Repro) only...


See attached; what do you think?

I have Minitab, feel free to use Minitab if it's feasible there. Or equivalancy in Excel.

Once again; Thanks a lot....
 

Attachments

MasterBB

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#14
Miner,

Sorry, I could not locate the workshseet you were referring to..
Is that a different one than the one you downloaded earlier?

Thanks
 

Miner

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Staff member
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#16
Thanks a lot..

Here is the attached data.
How was this study done? Is each row a different part measured by a different operator?
If I am doing the GLM, how to calculate the variance components?
In the dialog box, one of the buttons (Report or Options) has a check box for Variance Components. Check this box and Minitab will print them at the bottom of the Session Window.
 

MasterBB

Involved In Discussions
#17
Each row is a separte product & measured by one operator. Notice in this data you have most of the parts done by operator 1, & the rest operator 2. If I can utilize recent data that's been collected without doing a brand new MSA; that would be ideal. Minitab does not have a function to analyze a repeatability with one operator. What would be my st. deviation for sGageR?
 

MasterBB

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#18
Miner,

I am attempting to calculate Repeatability -Equipment Variation (EV) Via Excel;
EV =R x k1 ; but I there are 2 values for K1 (max of 3 trials)..
The example I am dealing with is 5 trials...

What would be the suggested K1 value?

The above assuminmg that I am calculation GRR based on X-bar method.

Thanks in advance.
:thanks:
 

MasterBB

Involved In Discussions
#19
Bev,

Clarification: Does L37 σe, the measurement error of the measurement system (not just the gage) include stability, linearity, cosistency, and R&R?

Thanks.
 

Miner

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Staff member
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#20
Each row is a separte product & measured by one operator. Notice in this data you have most of the parts done by operator 1, & the rest operator 2. If I can utilize recent data that's been collected without doing a brand new MSA; that would be ideal. Minitab does not have a function to analyze a repeatability with one operator. What would be my st. deviation for sGageR?
In this situation, the measurement variation and the part variation are inextricably intertwined with each other.

Do you have reason to believe that the parts are homogeneous? That is, that part variation can be considered to be essentially zero? Otherwise, nothing can be done with this data to estimate measurement variation.
 
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