Gage R&R where Device Under Test (DUT) is part of the Measurement System

#1
Hey all,

So I'm working on a device that's job is to measure a volume. For this evaluation we have known (calibrated/confirmed) volumes and we use the device we produce to measure the volumes (device reports a numerical volume measurement). We would like to use this test method to evaluate different configurations/versions of our device, so I now need to validate this method. First instinct is to throw the process and operators into a crossed Gage R&R however a number of things jump out at me.

1) With a Gage R&R this effectively makes our device the caliper in the caliper/gage block example. But I'm making the calipers, not the the blocks. It feels like the device you are evaluating shouldn't be part of the measurement system loop.

2) there are really 2 options for the test config.

3 operators, 5 devices, 3 reps and re-evaluate for each volume we measure.
3 operators, 1 device, 3 reps on 5 known volumes.

The first feels like the better option, as the second is really just evaluating one system, which works great in the caliper example, if you will use that caliper forever more, but our intent is to change the device.

If you remove our device from the problem completely you have a known volume, and an operator who has to read a numerical output off of a screen. Not much to validate there.

Is it still worth going down the road of Gage R&R? Or is there a different method by which we can evaluate our measurement system?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Miner

Forum Moderator
Leader
Admin
#2
The answer to this question really depends on your goals.

A GRR study only answers the question of "How repeatable and reproducible is my measurement system?" In other words, how variable is it? It does not answer the question "How accurate is my measurement system?"

As I read your post, I do not have a clear understanding of your goal. Is it:
  1. How variable are the new measurement devices (i.e., repeatability & reproducibility)?
  2. How accurate are the new measurement devices compared to the standard?
  3. How accurate are the new measurement devices compared to the current device?
  4. A different goal entirely?
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
G Gage R&R - Where am I going wrong? Part of a FAIR submission (Aerospace) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
Q Where to place a Down Stream Gage Inspection on an FMEA FMEA and Control Plans 5
D Quality Digest article - "An Honest Gage R&R Study" - Where is he getting the d2*? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
G Where to find Ggg-g-17 - Spec is related to GAGE, FILLET AND RADIUS Customer and Company Specific Requirements 7
U Calibration House - Where I can get a PG 13.5 Gut thread ring gage calibrated? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
O Where to purchase Go/NO GO Block gage needed to measure width General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
C Environmental Conditions - Where gage calibrated vs. Where gage used General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 19
D ISO 6508-2 and Hardness Gage Testers - Apostrophes where I expect a decimal point Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
M DaimlerChrysler Gage Standard - Where to find PSO 5th edition requirements Customer and Company Specific Requirements 2
PastorBee13 Attribute Gage R&R with no bad samples Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
H Air Pressure Gage Calibration General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
M Spot Weld Nugget - MSA Gage R&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
D Gage type and data base maintainence Using GAGEpack Software 2
F Should I perform several Gage R&R for every caliper to cover all specs range of use? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 9
T Gage R&R study - Ordinal data Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
Q Gage Pin Sets? Calibrate/Verify them all or just a sample size? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 22
S If 4 operate to measure, what is the value of k2?(MSA gage R&R) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
S Faro Arm, Gage R&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
8 MSA--Should I Use Parts or Gage Pins? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
C Gage Block Grade 1 - Calibration Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 15
R Gage Measuring 15 Parts at a Time Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 9
Q Gage calibration in disarray ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
M Gage R&R automated test equipment Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
PQ Systems Recipe for Success! 10 Ingredients for a Healthy Gage Management System Using GAGEpack Software 0
D Gage Repeatability for Faro Arm Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
S Comparing measurement results for a part from two ring gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
M Quick Gage R&R Question Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 9
PQ Systems Best Practices In Gage Management Using GAGEpack Software 0
PQ Systems Gage R&R - 3 Part Series Using GAGEpack Software 0
I Excel based Gage R&R VS Minitab calculation Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
R Repeatability Type 1 Gage and Gage R&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
W Proper gage to use for receiving inspection General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
A GAGE R&R Binomial with master list (for method validation) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 0
Q Gage calibration / tracking software General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
A R chart from ANOVA gage R&R test Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 12
M Type 1 Gage r study Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
T Plug Gage Calibration Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 1
L Gage R&R TMV Acceptance Criteria Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
S MSA for attribute relation gage Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
E Zero part to part variation - Gage R&R project Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 15
M Gage R&R and right way to measure Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 16
L Gage RandR on automated equipment. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
B Gage calibration frequency, ISO and IATF - What are the requirements Calibration Frequency (Interval) 3
D Difference between Test Method Validation and Gage R&R Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 20
R Determining Uncertainty from Gage R&R Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
C Correct Calibration Method for Dial Depth Gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
C Gage Block Wringing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
B Gage R&R with NDC=1 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 19
S Type 1 Gage R&R or something else? Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 6
G Should I perform Gage R&R only at the beginning of a new project? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6

Similar threads

Top Bottom