Gage R&R with 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

B

biker6977

#1
Can I do a guage R&R with 3 people, 10 parts, checking 12 positions on each part?
Seems all the gauge R&R sheets I find use up to 10 pieces but one position on each piece.
These are simple round flat parts. We check, OD, ID and thickness. We check thickness in 12 locaions as required by the customer.
1. can I do a R&R this way?
2. if not, what do I need to do to show that how we measure is a good method?

Thanks,
Caroline
 
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Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
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Super Moderator
#2
Re: 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

To me it seems that would not be a limiting issue, but others here will contribute also.
 
B

biker6977

#3
Re: 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

Do you happen to have or know where I might find a gauge R&R sheet that would allow this?
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#4
Re: 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

What you are really doing is 3 persons 120 parts (You have to look at each position as a different part. They are NOT repetitions.) Then, you need to determine the number of repetitions. SPC XL can do this.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
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#5
Re: 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

This is not a standard MSA, and I doubt that you will find a file with which to analyze it. However, it can be analyzed using ANOVA. Location would be WithIn part Variation (WIV), and can be evaluated separate from R&R.

If you have already run this, please attach your data and I will analyze it for you.
 
B

biker6977

#6
Re: 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

THANK YOU!:applause:
You'll see off to the side I was comparing the operators.

I have 2 more people I'd like to add to this to compare all the people in QC. would this be done the same?
 

Attachments

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#7
Re: 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

Attached is the data that was calculated as 3 operators 120 parts (10 parts 12 positions) and 1 repetition. This is only accurate if the 12 locations on each part were accurately marked so that each operator hit the same spot as the other operators. Otherwise the variation you detect is from measurement error and not from the gage error itself.
 

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B

biker6977

#8
Re: 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

All parts were marked with location 1,2,3 etc.
Thanks so much!
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#9
Re: 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

Attached is my analysis. Since you have no repeats, I analyzed it using Minitabs Gage R&R routine. However, there is no Repeatability. Instead you have within part variation (WIV), which does have a repeatability component within it.

To separate Repeatability from (WIV), you would have to repeat the same study on the same parts in the same locations with the same operators. Then an ANOVA would be able to separate Repeatability, Reproducibility and (WIV).
 

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Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Re: 3 people 10 parts 12 positions on each part

Miner is correct. if you don't have each operator repeat each measurement (randommly without knowing what value they got the first time they measured that part and location) we cannot determine measurement error. Nor can we adequately assess within piece variation vs. simple error.

Repeatability (can the same operator get the same result on the same part/feature/location) twice) is the first R in R&R.

Without knowing that repeatability is small, reproducibility (the difference between operators) is a relatively meaningless calculation - unless the difference is really large.
 
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