Gage RandR on automated equipment.

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lljensen67

Starting to get Involved
We have a uniformity machine that measures uniformity on tires. There is no operator bias. Our IATF auditor is insisting that we use the 3 x 3 x 10. We use a standard 5 x 5. Should the 5 x 5 not be acceptable? What other randr would be used for automated equipment. Thank you!
 
O

outdoorsNW

Quite Involved in Discussions
Does the machine load itself or otherwise position the item being measured so there is no operator influence from loading or work positioning?

If yes, and all possible operator influence is removed, then the auditor is wrong to require 3 operators. You auditor would not allow a two operator 15 sample setup which many people think gives more meaningful results.

Who does this auditor represent? Is this a third party audit or a customer audit?
 
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lljensen67

Starting to get Involved
Yes, the machine loads itself. No operators involved at all. It is a third party auditor for IATF. We are working to get a customer approval for the 5 x 5 that we do. This equipment is also buried in an assembly line with VERY heavy parts so doing this test is extremely cumbersome to begin with. The equipment being 6ft off the ground and assemblies being a full tire/wheel HD. I REALLY appreciate your response!
 
Miner

Miner

Forum Moderator
Leader
Admin
I recommend directing this auditor to the AIAG MSA manual 4th edition, Chapter II, Section C (p. 73), Preparation for a Measurement Systems Study, 1) "There are some measurement systems where the effect of reproducibility can be considered negligible; for example, when a button is pushed and a number is printed out." 2) The number of appraisers, number of sample parts, and number of repeat readings should be determined in advance.

The reason for the existence of this entire section is to allow you to design a study that is appropriate for your situation and not be forced into using a standard study format that does not apply in all circumstances. Given that, you will still need to justify the decisions that you make.
 
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lljensen67

Starting to get Involved
Miner said:
I recommend directing this auditor to the AIAG MSA manual 4th edition, Chapter II, Section C (p. 73), Preparation for a Measurement Systems Study, 1) "There are some measurement systems where the effect of reproducibility can be considered negligible; for example, when a button is pushed and a number is printed out." 2) The number of appraisers, number of sample parts, and number of repeat readings should be determined in advance.

The reason for the existence of this entire section is to allow you to design a study that is appropriate for your situation and not be forced into using a standard study format that does not apply in all circumstances. Given that, you will still need to justify the decisions that you make.
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This is great information!! Thanks so much for the assistance!
 
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