Gas Sterilization of a Force gauge, to be used in orthopedic surgery..??

#11
Hello AllTheThings..!

thanks so much for your insight. Its nice to chat to someone who 'gets'it.... I am actually a veterinary surgeon so I am doing this in dogs (pics attached of typical THR), so I appreciate the hammer comment very much :)

There is no way to do this pre-operation, I believe, and doing it in model plastic bones would not really achieve what I want, which is measuring the soft tissue tension across the hip. This is a combined, summated effect of things like joint capsule and all tendons and muscles across the hip.

So, I wanted to ask you about your comment about the 'fairly fast/high sample rate force gauge' and the 'high speed log of the data'. I did a 'dry run' yesterday in theatre and the event of pulling on the hohman etc until reduction is achieved will only last a few seconds, perhaps 3-5. I am trying to keep this initial experiment relatively low -cost, also bearing in mind andftrying to understand the possible limitation of going for a cheaper force gauge versus a more expensive one. I dont think I need to have the capabilities of tracking the forces to be able to graph them or anything like this and as long as I have a peak force value, i think this is all I need. So, initially, I looked at purchasing something like a Beesland SF- 500 or similar, to keep it simple and cheap. do you think this would be adequate..?? was attaching a link here but.......

I also wonder if this can be properly calibrated, though. ??

There will be NO way to standardize the angle of the instrument pulling back on the Hohman retractor, I think, since it will rely more on a 'feel' of the right direction of pull, as I am used to do it with my hand.. so this will be a limitation of the proper force aplied since the angle will probably be fairly consistent but not absolutely the same every time or 'standardizable' :(

I need to get you a picture of what I mean, so we can be on the same page. I also need to describe the second part of this study, which is similar. Gotta go to theater now.. Just realized, I need to have 10 messages before the system allows me to attach pics...!! :( :(

Thanks again

Juan :)
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#12
Dear AllTheThing,

Hope you are well. I typed a reply to your last message but I am not sure what happened.....I was doing other things and perhaps I got timed out or something, since I thought I had sent it, but now can't see it on the conversation......:( By the way, I am a veterinary surgeon, not a human surgeon. :)

No way this can be done "pre op" because, yes, the tension that we are measuring comes from the soft tissues around the hip..

I think what you mean by "fast/high sample rate"...this is to be able to detect EXACTLY the moment in which the traction acutely drops, and call that PEAK value...correct..?? . I am trying to keep this cheap and I was originally thinking of a Beesland SF 500 type of digital force gauge or similar, since I don't need to do graphs or fancy charts. But I do realise the quality of the device will be compromised in the cheaper versions....do you think something like a Beesland will be able to be calibrated and consistently measure what I need to ..?? I tried to include a link, but this system does not allow me to do this yet ( I need 10 plain messages before I can do this...)

So I think there will be no way to really standardise the angle of pulling back on the Hohman retractor, since this is more of a feel in surgery. My guess is that the angle will be roughly always the same but will not be standardised. Again, I tried to include some pics here last week, but could not.

I need to explain to you , also, the second part of this study, but I gotta go to surgery now

Juan :)
 

AllTheThings

Involved In Discussions
#14
No problem at all :)

With cosine errors, you just try and be as good as you can for this application.

For sample rates, I will try and give background:

You will want to sample at about half the length of the "event". So a hand clap can be ~ 4 milliseconds. So you need to sample very 2 milliseconds, or 500 Hz. If your insertion is a half second, then you will want to sample at a quarter second of faster. This is all so you capture the peak as best as possible.

Generally, any decent force gauge can sample at 1 KHz, and return the peak. So that would be the parameter to look at when selecting a gauge.

You should be able to verify the gauge by hanging a weight off of it.

Good luck in surgery!
 
#15
Thanks for your response..!!

the second part of the study is to measure what is called the SCHUCK test, in humans, which is the subjective assessment of soft tissue tension across the hip by looping a long swab or tape and pulling back, in the direction of the femoral neck, to measure the resistance of the head being lifted off the socket, all the way to luxating the hip. So, this is to avoid leaving too tight or too lose a hip in surgery. Human surgeons do this routinely but I understand they never really measure the force, and this remains a subjective feel. Again, can't put a link yet so please go to Youtube and type : 'Balancing the hip and the schuck test' and you will see what I mean.

No instruments involved so the traction is more linear along the neck, and this tape could be connected directly to the hook of the force gauge, for a straightforward measurement. Still waiting for the ethical approval of this study really, so....:)

Thanks again

Juan :)
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
C Sterilization Validation ISO 14937 - Sterilizer that uses EO gas diffusion Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 7
G Classification of a container containing a liquified gas EU Medical Device Regulations 0
N Voltage Doubler fail - can gas tubes be used? IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 0
H How does a gas turbine work on diesel fuel? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 12
B Industrial RX inspection of welds (Oil&Gas industry) Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 0
K Biocompatibility evaluation of gas pathways Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 5
K Verifying gas tight glass syringe used for making standards General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
P Gas Nitriding Surface Hardening of Stainless Steel 304 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
V Cleanliness/Bioburden for Non-Sterile Gas Path Medical Devices Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 7
G In-House Calibration of Gas Flow Meters General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
B Primary lithium battery protection and vented gas IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 5
L Environmental Gas Leak Detection Equipment Recomendations Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 2
E Lean Manufacturing in Oil & Gas Industry Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 4
T Calibration procedure for Bubble Gas Flow Meter General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
J Back to the Cove - Oil and Gas Industry Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 1
T Traceability of the Contents in Gas Cylinders General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
J Rounding at the Gas Pumps Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 27
B Oil and Gas Engineering Consultancy Auditing Internal Auditing 3
M How to include Gas Measurement Equipment Servicing & Calibration Scope to ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
M Identification and Traceability for Oil & Gas Production ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
Claes Gefvenberg Massive gas leak off Scotland World News 12
A What are gas prices going to do? Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 21
L API Q2 Specification - QMS (Oil & Gas Industry Aftermarket) Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 73
N Check Valve and Pumps for Gas Compression Systems - Ped 97/23/ec? CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 1
S Natural Gas Power Plant - Aspects & Impacts Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 8
T Gas Nitride requirements per AMS2759/6 - Clarification appreciated Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
D ISO TS 29001 (Petroleum Petrochemical Natural Gas) - Internal Audit Checklist example Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 3
K What to look for when buying non-inventory products such as Gas & Electricity Service Industry Specific Topics 2
S Is it possible to convert a gas turbine to a diesel turbine? Manufacturing and Related Processes 10
W Oven Leak Test Method - Integrity of the chamber to hold gas Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 3
M Ethylene Oxide Gas Shelf Life ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
Marc Gas Mileage - Which saves more gasoline? Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 21
J Oil & Gas industry - ISO 9001 Compliance - Rental Tool Company Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 12
S Medical Gas Pressure Regulators - Anybody had testing conducted at 450 bar? ISO 10524 Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 5
S Training Requirements for Using Gas Turbine Equipment? Power Plant Manufacturing and Related Processes 7
S Medical Gas Change Over Unit - Which Standard to use? Other Medical Device Related Standards 4
C Testing Agencies - Gas Meters and Hand Held Analyzers General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
S ISO 14064/65 standard...Green House Gas (GHG) program Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 3
V Training Needs - Small workforce electricity generation/gas production Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 2
R Validation of GC - MS (Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry) Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 1
S Oil and Gas Audit - What are the basic skills needed for an auditor Internal Auditing 9
G Is Medical Grade Gas always a drug? Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 8
Ajit Basrur Starting ISO 14064 Green House Gas (GHG) program Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 9
M Mechanical Maintenance Procedures for Oil & Gas wanted Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
M New Petrol/Gas Gauge announced Funny Stuff - Jokes and Humour 1
Stijloor How to save gas.... Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 2
A Feed Contractor (Oil and Gas) Audit/Technical Performance Appraisal Service Industry Specific Topics 0
N KHK - High Pressure Gas Safety Institute of Japan Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 0
Sidney Vianna Improving gas mileage with acetone? Myth? Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 4
A Integrity of Flue gas analyzer? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom