GD&T - Concentricity Call Out on a Drawing --> .005 TIR

J

jdm2008

#1
I have the following call out on a drawing.

Concentricity:
.005 TIR

That is exactly how it appears on the drawing. The part in question is a retaining ring, and the ring is out of round by more than .005 however it meets the diameter call out(at all points) which is less strict.
Can I reject this part for being out of round? I was under the impression that TIR was a runout callout however it is listed under cocentricity.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
I have the following call out on a drawing.

Concentricity:
.005 TIR

That is exactly how it appears on the drawing. The part in question is a retaining ring, and the ring is out of round by more than .005 however it meets the diameter call out(at all points) which is less strict.
Can I reject this part for being out of round? I was under the impression that TIR was a runout callout however it is listed under cocentricity.
Unfortunately, there's no way to tell for sure what was intended without asking the person who designed the thing. Chances are that what's expected is that two or more circular or cylindrical features will be coaxial--sharing a common axis. This can be true even if one or both diameters is/are out of round. It's a process of finding the centers of both features and measuring the distance between them.
 
J

jdm2008

#3
I am almost positive that the designer intended for the part to be constrained in roundness to. The part is made from bent stock so it isn't likely the ID and OD will have offset axis.
Though I am more wondering whether the supplier is responsible to eat the costs of non-functional parts(a large expense) based on the print and whether the print specifies the parts must be round.
Based on your response, I think I've just gotton bad news!
 
D

David DeLong

#4
I am almost positive that the designer intended for the part to be constrained in roundness to. The part is made from bent stock so it isn't likely the ID and OD will have offset axis.
Though I am more wondering whether the supplier is responsible to eat the costs of non-functional parts(a large expense) based on the print and whether the print specifies the parts must be round.
Based on your response, I think I've just gotton bad news!
Probably, the Designer wanted a circular runout of .005" from 1 diameter to the diameter in question. Circular runout includes both roundness and off centre. I am guessing a bit here since I have not seen the drawing.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
Probably, the Designer wanted a circular runout of .005" from 1 diameter to the diameter in question. Circular runout includes both roundness and off centre. I am guessing a bit here since I have not seen the drawing.
I have a feeling that if we could see the drawing we still wouldn't know. The only way to know for sure is to ask the design authority.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
I have the following call out on a drawing.

Concentricity:
.005 TIR

That is exactly how it appears on the drawing. The part in question is a retaining ring, and the ring is out of round by more than .005 however it meets the diameter call out(at all points) which is less strict.
Can I reject this part for being out of round? I was under the impression that TIR was a runout callout however it is listed under concentricity.
It would help us tremendously if a drawing could be shown. Can you attach one?
We can be a lot more specific in our responses. :agree1:

Stijloor.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#7
I am almost positive that the designer intended for the part to be constrained in roundness to. The part is made from bent stock so it isn't likely the ID and OD will have offset axis.
Though I am more wondering whether the supplier is responsible to eat the costs of non-functional parts(a large expense) based on the print and whether the print specifies the parts must be round.
Based on your response, I think I've just gotton bad news!
Unfortunately, your print isn't very clear. Thus, you'll have a "dispute" with your supplier -- especially when you expect him to "eat the costs."

IMO, you'll need to work together for a solution. If it is a critical requirement, you'll want to be crystal clear and include a conversation how to measure it. Good luck.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
Unfortunately, your print isn't very clear. Thus, you'll have a "dispute" with your supplier -- especially when you expect him to "eat the costs."

IMO, you'll need to work together for a solution. If it is a critical requirement, you'll want to be crystal clear and include a conversation how to measure it. Good luck.
It appears that the OP is the supplier in this case. It doesn't sound to me like he's dealing with his own drawing. :D
 
J

jdm2008

#9
It appears that the OP is the supplier in this case. It doesn't sound to me like he's dealing with his own drawing. :D
Thanks for the responses. My company is the customer. I am not the supplier but I did not create the print either. The print is very old and before I was around. :)

I will attach a print later in a while, when I can get to a scanner.
 
T

True Position

#10
If it's an old drawing concentricity (especially written out) and not the actual GD&T concentricity symbol then the intent is very likely runout. Even when you get the GD&T symbol the intent is usually runout.

That it is written as 'TIR' makes me greater then 90% sure, especially since TIR is used for runout and not "concentricity".

Before you submit final results or move forward I'd call the customer or at least get a quick email out. Unfortunately, that makes your parts bad, runout is made up of roundness error and position error. If you are out of round 0.005 then your runout can only be worse.
 
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