General Info on ISO 9000 and Technical Committee 176 - Getting Involved

Would you donate US$50 to US$100 for a Cover to represent us in TC 176?

  • No - I will not donate money.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    3
V

vanputten

#1
Hello All:

In the July 2005 issue of Quality Digest, there is an article written by Jack West. Jack is the chair of Technical Comittee 176 to ISO which is responsible for ISO 9000 series of documents.

The name of the article is: Many Standards, Few Volunteers.
Help shape the ISO 9000 family for future users.

Quality Digest is a free publication and anyone should be able to get a copy of the article. Below is a link that may or may not work. The article describes TC 176, how to get involved with TC 176, and there is a chart of all of the ISO 9000 series and the status of each document. It is a handy list.

Help shape the ISO 9000 family for future users

Regards, Dirk

EDIT ADD: Note that THE ABOVE link will become a Dead Link in a month because of the way Quality Digest's web site is structured / designed (it uses a 'currentmag' link which changes each month).
 
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Randy

Super Moderator
#2
Here's the BIG catch....

They want you to pay $$ for the opportunity to volunteer and then you need to get thru to "good 'l boys".

They can pack sand. Folks that "volunteer" shouldn't have to pay for the chance.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#3
Randy, you mean you (or your company) pay for travel and lodging and such to attend meetings, correct?

This is a stretch, but maybe the Cove could sponsor someone for a year or something.

From the article:
When most people think of ISO standards, they think of ISO 9001. It's safe to say that almost everyone on the planet who's heard about the International Organization for Standardization heard about it because of ISO 9001. But ISO produces standards on many topics. Currently there are approximately 200 ISO technical committees covering diverse topics, such as TC 173 on assistive products for people with disabilities and TC 18 on zinc and zinc alloys.

ISO 9001, "Quality management systems--Requirements" is the responsibility of Technical Committee 176 on quality management and quality assurance, and although it's the best-known ISO standard, it's not the only document produced by that committee. All the TC 176 documents are generally referred to as being "part of the ISO 9000 family," even though most don't use the 900X numbering. The TC 176 documents using the 900X designation (ISO 9000, ISO 9001 and ISO 9004) are usually referred to as the "ISO 9000 series." The ISO 9000 series standards and some of the other standards of the ISO 9000 family have been adopted as American national standards. The table to the right indicates the status of the ISO 9000 family of stand-ards already published as well as those in the development process.

The "implementation and support package" documents listed are developed as needed by the working group responsible for ISO 9001 to help users understand the intentions of the drafters and guide implementation. They're not formal ISO consensus documents like the others but are often helpful to users.

The U.S. Technical Advisory Group to TC 176 is always seeking new members--particularly from industrial and service companies. If you'd like to help with the difficult but rewarding work of standards development, call Jason Knopes of the American Society for Quality at (800) 248-1946.

About the author
John E. (Jack) West is a consultant, business advisor and author, with more than 30 years of experience in a wide variety of industries. He is chair of the U.S. TAG to ISO TC 176 and lead delegate for the United States to the International Organization for Standardization committee responsible for the ISO 9000 family of quality management standards.
Does anyone know anything about Jason Knopes of the ASQ?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#4
Marc said:
Randy, you mean you (or your company) pay for travel and lodging and such to attend meetings, correct?

This is a stretch, but maybe the Cove could sponsor someone for a year or something.

From the article:

Does anyone know anything about Jason Knopes of the ASQ?

Not just that...You have to pay a fee to be a member (a few hundred $ if I remember right) I looked into TC 207 last year and determined that I'd rather punt.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#5
Heck, the fee isn't that big a deal if it's only a few hundred dollars. Rather than fight the dark, better we help provide the light. I think travel would be the most expensive part.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#6
After checking this out, there is no fee to be a member of TC 176 nor TC 207. As I said above I may consider sponsoring someone. Or maybe I'll call and get the info and get involved.

Randy, where did you hear there is a fee involved?

BTW - Here's the list of ISO 9000 series documents from the Quality Magazine web site.

ISO%209000%20Family%20of%20Quality%20Management%20Standards.gif
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#7
I've added a Poll to assess the interest. I listed myself (Marc) in the poll, but I am open to sponsoring someone else.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#8
I appreciate the 'food for thought'. You're probably right. I haven't read YYYYYYYY experiences, but I know his focus was on declining new registrations so I'm sure that didn't help.

Oh, well. Worth discussing.
 
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V

vanputten

#9
There is no fee to be a member of TC 176. There is an Observer fee of $250 for the US TAG. Paying the observer fee is to see the documents and have access to them. Observer members can even comment. They just have no vote. Meetings are open to anyone that would like to attend.
Observers do not have to attend meetings, review documents, vote, or participate. Observers do get to read / review all documents, work items, opinions, vote results, etc. ANSI is the oversight body for the US TAG to ISO/TC 176. I believe the observer fee was implemented by ANSI and not the members or leaders within the TAG. TC 207 has an application fee of $275. I believe this fee is a carryover from ASTM when they were the oversight body.

Complain to the oversight bodies about the fees. Better yet, get involved and plan the TC 176 or TC 207 processes and infrastructure to eliminate the fees. $250 – 275 to be privy to lots of information on ISO documents is a small price to pay. And it is a one-time fee. Quality Systems Update magazine is $375 USD / year. ISO Management Systems magazine is $109 USD / year.

There is no catch. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. The application to the US TAG to TC 176 is attached. The meetings are public. All are invited to attend even if they do not become an observer or voting member.

Jason Knopes is the Standards Administrator for the US Standards Group. He would be the person to provide you with an application, process the application, etc.

Hello Sidney:

Here is my personal opinion. You are incorrect. I have no idea where you got the info that a TC is "scared?" I am an active member of the US TAG / TC 176 and I have no idea what you are talking about. The US TAG to ISO / TC 176 is responsible for the US position on the ISO 9000 series of documents. These documents are intended to be improvement tools for organizations. Procrastination to be registered to a new revision is an issue for the conformity assessment world. There is the standard, the implementation of the standard, and conformity assessment to the standard. Which of the 3 is the cause of the procrastination to register to ISO 9000:2000 or the apparent decline in ISO 9000 registrations? What is the cause – effect? The cause could be the standard. But I doubt it since there were few new requirements in ISO 9001:2000 over the 1994 version. This procrastination phenomenon was discussed and analyzed in the US TAG. But the main purpose of ISO 9001:2000 is for organizational improvement, not registration.

TC 176 does not operate under the constraints of conformity assessment. The ISO 9000 series are meant to be tools to improve organizations. Registrations and conformity assessment is a separate but related industry. Why would TC 176 be scared to support continual improvement? The TAG processes require review of documents at certain time frames in an attempt to insure suitability, adequacy and continual improvement.

Organizational cultures don’t change overnight. And this assumes that they need to. You may be referring to Jack West. The leaders of the US TAG (or Good Ol Boys) have a vote that is equal to everyone else’s vote in the US TAG. As a member body, the US TAG has one vote, which is equal to all other member bodies of TC 176. To think that the US TAG controls the international process is a fallacy. And to think that the politics are isolated to the US TAG is also a fallacy. Spend some time with Jack West and the rest of the TAG leadership. Find out what the politics are at all levels within ISO and in all countries that participate. Not an easy task. I have witnessed first hand the leaders openly discussing international politics of votes and the issue positions of other countries. Very complex!

How do we know that Mr. or Mrs. TAG would not have engaged in the same activities, consulting and publishing, had they not been involved in the TAG? For those that condemn Mr. And Mrs. TAG, I hope you do not possess or reference their work.

The leaders of the US Standards Group pour their heart and soles into bettering the world of management systems. Some have published books, others have not. Are they to be blamed for this? Are we saying that their books would not sell had they never been part of the TAG? They are brilliant people and their thoughts certainly should be valued independent of their association with the voluntary TAG.

Do you vote or do you come to the same conclusion that we can't make a change via a consensus process?

All of the meetings are public. Please attend. An error in attributing behavior to incorrect causes is part of human nature. This is especially easy to do if we were not even present when the behavior was exhibited.

I commend YYYYYYYYY for becoming a member of the US TAG to ISO/TC 176.
I believe that YYYYYYYYY has been to one meeting. Realize we all (including me) filter what we see and hear. Just because I write something or YYYYYYYYY publishes something on his website in no way means that it is the truth. The truth may be unknown or unknowable. Everything one experiences is different from what others experienced before. Nothing in the universe is static. Everything is constantly changing. As a consequence, the notion of "right" or "wrong" is open to challenge. What is "perfect " or "right" for any given situation, may over time, no longer be appropriate.

Get involved. Find out. The US TAG is only one voting member body of the world wide TC 176. The US vote is equal to all of the other member body votes.

There may be backlash from my posting. You asked for an opinion and there it is. I may be incorrect also. I may have made attributional errors also. My brain filters what I see and hear also. I am presenting this opinion personally and I am not representing the US TAG nor ISO.

STANDARDS GROUP MEETING
August 28 - September 1, 2005
Washington, DC
HOTEL INFORMATION
Hilton Washington
1919 Connecticut Avenue
Washington, DC 20009
Reservation # 202-797-5820 or toll free at 888-324-4586
 

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C

Carl Keller

#10
How about this,

How about using analysis of data and customer feedback as a basis for continuous improvement?

I think I have heard of a system before that claimed this was a successful approach.

They are a disgrace.
 
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