Getting Rid of QS9000 Procedures that are no longer necessary with TS 16949



Hi everyone, this is my first thread so my apologies if I do something wrong- I have recently been appointed to Lead Auditor for the automotive company that I work for. Prior to our TS certification, we had QS9000-and all of it's procedures. We have hundreds of procedures in our system now that are no longer required. Have any of you gone through your system and done and overhaul of QS procedures vs. TS procedures? If so, can you please share your experience- I'm a bit overwhelmed right now!
Thanks so much-K.D.
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To tell you the truth we left most of our procedures in place. they are working and a benefit to our siccess so why get rid of them? Just because TS does not require them does not mean your company does not.


Welcome to the Cove K.D. -

TS-16949 has fewer REQUIRED procedures than QS. There is nothing to limit the number of procedures you have in a TS system. If you have been keeping your procedures up to date, there is no requirement to "clean house". If your system works now and you have good procedures for what you do, why not just use them within your TS system? You can reduce them to work instructions, change them to suit your need or eliminate them if you wish but there is no requirement to do so. You can always cut them back later. No need to be overwhelmed by procedures right now.



K.D. - ow, you just caused me a nightmare, had a flashback to being in your shoes this time last year. We also had over 100 QS9000 procedures and when we sat down to do TS decided to take a long hard look at all those procedures to see if we could dump, combine or whatever. We ended up doing a combination of dumping some procedures (for instance, we had procedures for some processes ALONG WITH control plans, and we killed the procedures and kept the control plans) - combining others - and outright eliminating a few. We went from over 100 to about 40. Kept some even though they were not required by TS for reasons cited in earlier post above - they were useful to our system, and the absence of them could result in non-conformances or just plain sloppy behavior on some people's part.

TS uses the "hey, you only need 7 procedures!" thing as a selling point, but I've yet to run across anyone who really operates with that few. Keep what is useful, dump it if it's something you ONLY had because QS required it, and make sure the procedures required by TS are included.

Interestingly, one of the things we ended up dumping was our Quality Manual, at least in the traditional sense. QS required the "traditional" Quality Manual where you spit back every element and make a brief statement about how you comply with it - TS lists various things that must be included in your "quality manual" but really DOESN'T say it has to be one of those QS type manuals. We declared (successfully, I might add) the entirety of our procedures, flow charts, controlled docs, etc as our "Quality Manual." We maintain one hardcopy of all that anyway, as backup to our electronic versions, so that one hard copy is our "Quality manual." I cite this example just to say when you start the process of figuring out what to keep and what to toss it's helpful to back up a few steps and get out of the QS9000 mindset - try to look at the standard fresh, as if you'd never seen one before, and put the QS9000 thinking out of your head temporarily.

Hope that helps


Thank you all for your replies- I was under the impression that if procedures remained in the controlled system that they were still auditable by an external auditor. My fear is that because our company is filled with procedure junkies that during an audit, someone will pull out or draw reference to an old procedure that no longer explains the process they are being audited on, it's outdated,or who knows what else could be wrong with it. It seems whenever I do an internal audit and ask a question about a process, I hear "Well, I have a procedure that I follow" and people get confused when I tell them I don't want to see a procedure, I want them to show me proof of a process being followed. As a newly appointed Lead Auditor, I don't want someone to get dinged for a procedure that isn't even necessary per TS.
Thanks for your help! -Karen


I understand your concern Karen but I would hope your current procedures are a representation of your current process. If you think the process and procedure conflict then you are correct - you should be changing them. I am used to a system where the procedures are robust and updated with process changes. If your procedures have been periodiclly reviewed, they should stand up to an audit of the process. If you find one that doesn't, fix it or pitch it. You will probably find you have a lot of useful procedures that describe how things are done now. Use them to your advantage rather than trying to write a whole new procedure. IMHO, the fewer changes on the floor, the easier it will be to transition to your new system. Good luck.

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