Definition Goals Vs. Objectives - Seeking good definitions

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Craig H.

#2
dbz:

The way it has been explained to me is that you have overall goals (say, increase profitability), with objectives that are measurable and support those goals (i.e. reduce scrap in the trimming operation by 20%).
 
R

ralphsulser

#3
Craig H. said:
dbz:

The way it has been explained to me is that you have overall goals (say, increase profitability), with objectives that are measurable and support those goals (i.e. reduce scrap in the trimming operation by 20%).
Yes, I second what he said
 
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Rob Nix

#4
Discussions in Semantics!

We could get a long thread going on this subject, with everyone having a different take, considering the nuances, etc., but better yet, try this:

Pick a definition you and your company agrees on, and use it. No one can fault you.

BTW, I don't disagree with Craig's take on it.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#5
Rob Nix said:
Discussions in Semantics!

We could get a long thread going on this subject, with everyone having a different take, considering the nuances, etc., but better yet, try this:

Pick a definition you and your company agrees on, and use it. No one can fault you.

BTW, I don't disagree with Craig's take on it.
I respectfully disagree. ISO 9001 requires objectives, but not goals. ISO 9000:2000 does provide for a definition of quality objectives.
My take:
1)objective: Improve on-time delivery performance
2)goal: Reach 92% on-time delivery by end of Fiscal Year 2005.

IMO, in order to comply with ISO 9001, you must do 1), but not necessarily 2)
 
K

Kerrym

#6
Sidney Vianna said:
I respectfully disagree. ISO 9001 requires objectives, but not goals. ISO 9000:2000 does provide for a definition of quality objectives.
My take:
1)objective: Improve on-time delivery performance
2)goal: Reach 92% on-time delivery by end of Fiscal Year 2005.

IMO, in order to comply with ISO 9001, you must do 1), but not necessarily 2)
So, in your example, if you improved on-time delivery from 89% to 90% you would be achieving your objective but not your goal. You wouldn't need to have a specific goal in mind to demonstrate that your objective is measurable.

This makes sense, but it isn't the way our registrar's auditors have interpreted 5.4.1. The expectation has been that if we have an objective to reduce nonconformance costs, for example, it must be communicated within the organization as a goal like, "Reduce costs related to the production of nonconforming product by 10% in 2005."
 
A

Al Dyer

#7
IMO just the chicken and the egg syndrome.

(although the chicken did come first; the chicken is a fact and the egg is a probability):mg:

Al...
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
I think Craig and Sidney are basically saying the same thing - and that's how I understood it myself. But - I agree wholeheartedly with Rob and Al - who cares - it's semantics!!

From Webster's:

objective: something toward which effort is directed; an aim, goal, or end of action

goal: the end toward which effort is directed; aim

I'm just sayin' :rolleyes:
 

antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Interesting discussion.
Although the most important thing is to do it. Let's not forget that.
IMHO objectives are generic directives like " we must make sure our customers are satisfied ".

Goals ( to make customer satisfied ) are more specific like :
- improve delivery performance
- improve flexibility
- improve quality performance
- improve our costs (price)

If you put an (aiming) number on the goals they are called targets.
In ISO TS 16949 there is only a note that goes further than " objectives ".

NOTE ( under 5.4.1.1 ): Quality objectives should address customer expectations and be achievable within a defined time period.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#10
Kerrym said:
...but it isn't the way our registrar's auditors have interpreted 5.4.1. The expectation has been that if we have an objective to reduce nonconformance costs, for example, it must be communicated within the organization as a goal like, "Reduce costs related to the production of nonconforming product by 10% in 2005."
Good point! For all of the discussion we can have here regading the differences between the terms "goals" and "objectives", you're right that some registrars are looking specifically for statements similar to the one you provided.

However, my organization does a bit of both and while our registar loves it, it also (and more importantly) works for us and is understood by our people. We have objectives...grand statements made at the 30,000' level. Statements that basically translate into senior management's way of saying "Here's what we want...it's up to you to determine the how."

With those objectives in mind, we develop goals and steps on how we can achieve those goals, which result in the objectives being achieved.
 
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