%GRR was between 10-30% so we have to have a "backup plan" per auditor

[kenb]

Miner - thanks for finding that information, and I think you are correct about him reading a lot into it. I think the words "may" and "should" put things into perspective. I appreciate the help.

 

[Ashland78]

Miner - Most of the old gages are basically wet chemistry tests for our specific industry that involve balances, ovens, etc. There really aren't substitutions for the ones I'm asking about.

Ashland 78 - I know <10% is better, but is there somewhere it is stated that we need to have a backup? We never had a customer question anything less than 30% and only have a handful of IATF customers.

kbg1000 - we have very few CSR and that is not one of them, fortunately.

Not necessarily but you in general you should have contingency plans in place right? I know we have to get customer approval when we have situations like this arise. What we have done is shown them the accredited calibration reports for the gages, which show uncertainty in the calibration records, and 9 x's out of 10 they accept that. I hope all your gages are getting accredited calibration because that is what a lot of companies try to cut corners on.

 

[kenb]

Not necessarily but you in general you should have contingency plans in place right? I know we have to get customer approval when we have situations like this arise. What we have done is shown them the accredited calibration reports for the gages, which show uncertainty in the calibration records, and 9 x's out of 10 they accept that. I hope all your gages are getting accredited calibration because that is what a lot of companies try to cut corners on.

We have redundancy but it's the same type of gages. For the items that can be calibrated we have accredited calibration reports. If we had problems with any of our gages we would certainly get customer approval.

FYI, these tests are accepted throughout our industry and many are decades old. Even with standardized procedures many of our customers do things slightly different and it is sometimes difficult to get reproducible results.

 

[Golfman25]

Great questions. It was one of those verbal "I can't consult, but..." discussions. We did ask him to explain and he said it was in the MSA bluebook. I haven't read the bluebook cover to cover, but I don't recall ever seeing it in there.

So a couple of things. First of all, thank god he can't consult because he's wrong. So ignore him until he is wiling to write a non-conformance. Second, as miner pointed out, the blue book is pretty clear -- 10-30% is probably acceptable and should get customer approval. But look at your customer specific requirements. Some aren't as "lenient" and just put a boilerplate "must be less than 10%" language without thinking. So be prepared to address that as well. Good luck.

 

[kenb]

So a couple of things. First of all, thank god he can't consult because he's wrong. So ignore him until he is wiling to write a non-conformance. Second, as miner pointed out, the blue book is pretty clear -- 10-30% is probably acceptable and should get customer approval. But look at your customer specific requirements. Some aren't as "lenient" and just put a boilerplate "must be less than 10%" language without thinking. So be prepared to address that as well. Good luck.

Thanks. The auditor actually gave us a LOT of good advice, I just think he got it wrong on this one. Cheers!

 

[Howard Atkins]

As this was a stage 1 audit no nonconformance can be written, in fact the auditor did what he was supposed to do
From the rules:
6 5 2 Stage 1 activities
The stage 1 shall be performed:
C) to evaluate the clients status and understanding regarding requirements of the standard, in particular with respect to the identification of key performance or significant aspects, processes objectives, and operation of the management system;

The auditor identified that the core tools and requirements of the standard were not understood properly.
7.1.5.1.1 Measurement systems analysis
Statistical studies shall be conducted to analyse the variation present in the results of each type of inspection, measurement, and test equipment system identified in the control plan. The analytical methods and acceptance criteria used shall conform to those in reference manuals on measurement systems analysis. Other analytical methods and acceptance criteria may be used if approved by the customer.

Furthermore from the rules
6 5 3 Stage 1 decision
The stage 1 written report shall contain the following information:
b} any areas of concern that could be classified as a major or minor nonconformity at the stage 2 audit;
and
c} the audit team's decision {e.g-, “ready” to proceed or “not ready” to proceed}-
Nonconformities shall not be issued in the stage 1 readiness review report-