Guide 25 vs. ISO17025 - Substantially more requirements in ISO 17025

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Roger Eastin

#1
With ISO17025 being the standard for labs in TS16949, our company is comparing Guide 25 with ISO17025 and finding that there are substantially more requirements in ISO17025 than in Guide 25. It's causing quite a stir here. Has anyone else found this as well? (I am not a lab expert!)
 
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Graeme

#3
Originally posted by Roger Eastin:
With ISO17025 being the standard for labs in TS16949, our company is comparing Guide 25 with ISO17025 and finding that there are substantially more requirements in ISO17025 than in Guide 25. It's causing quite a stir here. Has anyone else found this as well? (I am not a lab expert!)
Roger,

From the foreword of ISO/IEC 17025:1999 --
this first edition of ISO/IEC 17025 cancels and replaces ISO/IEC Guide 25:1990.
17025 includes all of the requirements of ISO 9001:1994 that apply when you are acting as a supplier of testing or calibraton services. It also includes all of the competence requirements that were in Guide 25. So, it is more than either was before. This means you must have an effective quality management system and you must also prove your capability to do what you say you can do. One without the other is not sufficient.
 
J

jcham

#5
quote:
I haven't done a comparison. Any specifics on what the 'significant' differences are per your evaluation? What is "...causing quite a stir..."?

One of the differences that is causing a stir is the requirement for the calibration
labs to document the data for each calibration under 17025. This is not required under G25 unless the customer requests it. Also under 17025 the UUT (unit under test) is not found "out of tolerance" by the service provider, the customer is provided with the data readings & the customer decides whether they want the unit adjusted or not, unless previously specified in their agreement with the Lab.
The amount of extra time & chances of confusion created by this will "create quite a stir".

ANyone else have any thoughts about this?
 
J

J.R. Strickland

#6
We have recently received an RFQ package from General Motors that requires labs used for testing be ISO 17025 CERTIFIED. They made no separation between internal labs or external, commercial test facilities. This requirement appeared in the reliability testing specification. We are still clarifying, but if what is printed in the spec is true, this clearly raises the bar for internal labs a ton. Compliance is one thing...certification is another thing altogether. Certification means I have to have yet another audit from a different assessment body. Oh...and it also adds cost at the same time purchasing is asking for price reductions. The madness continues.
 
K

Ken K

#7
J.R.,we went through the same thing when we received updated test specifications from GM earlier this year. Fortunately, it's not as bad as it sounds.
Unless you do testing/calibrations for outside vendors/suppliers, your internal lab does not need to be certified to Guide 25 or ISO17025.
It's my understanding from talking to GM that the 17025 reference was included because GM is in the process of implementing more ISO test methods into their test specifications.
 

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
The ISO certification body I am working with offers the ISO 17025 assessment at the same time as the ISO audit..... Only a few select registrars have gone on to get approved for that, but its an excellent approach...all in one shot...and much less expensive...by thousands of $$$$
 
D

David Mullins

#9
Further to my comment: "Remember, you've got until December 2002 to comply!", the main lab accreditation body in Australia stes that (provided you applied prior to June 30 2000) from January 1 2001 all assessments will be against ISO 17025 (but all ISO 17025 noncompliances will be classified minor), from September 1 2002 non-compliances raised against ISO 17025 must be closed out or they will be re-coded as "Conditions" (Major NCRs) and must be closed out within three months.

Therefore existing accredited labs have until 31 December 2002 (or their next assessment after that date) to close out ISO 17025 nonconformances identified at previous assessments.

If you aren't doing the ISO 9001 thing, or have a comprehensive management system of your own, then the jump from guide 25 to ISO 17025 is a quantum leap.


------------------
 
D

Doreen Savoldi

#10
"Remember, you've got until December 2002 to comply!"

Were do you get this time line. Where can I get more information on how fast I must require the labs I use (now guide 25) to get to ISO/IEC 17025.
My company is seeking ISO/TS16949 certification. There doesn't seem to be any disclaimers in it on when to be ISO/IEC 17025.
 
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