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Has anyone successfully challenged the new IATF site extension change?

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#11
Re: Has anyone successfully challenged the new site extension change?

Yes, the site extension Rule has been challenged successfully. All the sites must have one integrated QMS, one interdependent production network. One operations leader and "site" staff. A single support structure (HR, IT, Accounting, etc.). But the largest factor came down to the group of sites having a single corporate identity (no separate plant status) and single external postal address.
If you have all of that in place you should be able to get your CB to elevate the issue to their oversight office and have your case reconsidered.
I understand a key part of that is a "single postal address." The other buildings cannot have an address. All must use the same common address.
 
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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#12
Re: Has anyone successfully challenged the new site extension change?

How dare one challenge an organization such as this it has helped to improve automotive quality to the level that we have exploding airbags, ignition switches that start fires, floor mats that hold down gas pedals and the other nice things new car owners have earned to love and cherish.

Yes-sir-ee-bob:lmao:
Notwithstanding all that...cars HAVE become better...much better...but, the management at OE's...well, that may be another story.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#13
Re: Has anyone successfully challenged the new site extension change?

Interesting. My experience with the IAOB is that they are totally opaque and 100% refractory to feedback, especially the negative ones.

They exercise their "authority" with an iron fist and could care less if the automotive supply chain does not like their mandates.

Just an opinion....;)
Yes, but if the phone lines and email lines are burning up from feedback from the "users," that can't be completely ignored....there is a bit of a two way street here...And Rules 4th ed. does need some serious tweaking...
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#14
Re: Has anyone successfully challenged the new site extension change?

I understand a key part of that is a "single postal address." The other buildings cannot have an address. All must use the same common address.
Does that mean where the actual mail goes? Since our facility spans several city lots we technically have several addresses.

What about a situation where hype mail goes to the office door address but delivery trucks would be forwarded to the dock door address? In a big city it is not uncommon to have the dock on one street and an office address on another (think corner).

Still seems silly to me. If the buildings are located in close proximity (ie a walk across a parking lot, alley, or sidewalk) and actually treated like a single facility then they should be a single facility.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#15
Re: Has anyone successfully challenged the new site extension change?

I agree it is very silly. They took a problem in China, and painted a broad solution that creates far more problems than it solves. It is a ridiculous rule when you apply it across the board. Just be glad there is at least this concession.
I think the safe thing to do would be to review it with your registrar...and maybe pry the address of the other buildings....
 

soulmas

Involved In Discussions
#16
Beginning this year, I had a meeting with IATF representatives to challenge this rule.. it didn't do much to us.. other than getting answers why they decided to create that rule. It looks like some companies were cheating, having different organizations/structures using the "extended workbench" as an excuse to have less auditor days. I understand that.. but for those cases, the auditor is the key, they have to notify that to DQS and open major NC's instead of changing the rules not considering other organizations that are not cheating.

The answers I got from IATF was to work with the registrar to get reductions using a mini corporate scheme... I mean, in your case, you will have 20% reduction for having 3 sites under the same organization. It's not a lot but at least is something (I actually suggested IATF to have a rule than in these cases, having up to 40% discount...it was just silence and then there was a comment regarding that the rules were already revised and will stay like that for long time).

Also, IATF suggested that another agreement between the organization and the registrar is, that having that mini-corporate scheme, the organization could decide how many auditor days would like to have by location. For instance, if the site extensions should have 2 auditor days each and the main location 6 auditor days.(total of 10 days) The organization could indicate the registrar to have only 1 days per site extension and 8 days for the main one.

Good luck!!
 

Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#17
Also, IATF suggested that another agreement between the organization and the registrar is, that having that mini-corporate scheme, the organization could decide how many auditor days would like to have by location. For instance, if the site extensions should have 2 auditor days each and the main location 6 auditor days.(total of 10 days) The organization could indicate the registrar to have only 1 days per site extension and 8 days for the main one.

Good luck!!
Where "Rules" are giving to CB authority for such agreement ? In December I have a certification audit of new plant, which normally should be treated as extension. Yes, we have a mini-corporate scheme and get this 20% reduction. Now I have no idea how to spend with auditors so much time calculated based on "extension" headcount. I have already asked for different time allocation - more for main site and less for extension, but auditor told me that they are not allowed to do so. Maybe we will go angling / fishing?
 

soulmas

Involved In Discussions
#18
Hi! Sebastian:

check 5.3 of the rules... just above the table 5.3 it says the following:

How the days are distributed between the site(s) and any supporting functions (on site or remote) is the responsibility of the certification body.

Based on this statement.. following my example.. the total number between sites will be the same.. (i.e: 10 days) but the distribution could be different as the assigned per site on the rules...
 
M

msoules

#19
Update: We were given a wavier from the IAOB/IATF to treat our buildings as one site!!:magic:

Makes so much more sense!!

And thanks for the laughs in the replies! :applause:
 
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