Have you ever "used" an auditor to achieve a goal?

S

silentrunning

#1
Have you ever steered an auditor in the direction of a non-conformance that top management is reluctant to address. My example is outdated measuring equipment. It seems like I have battled for many years to obtain state of the art equipment. Thanks to a customer audit, things are changing. ;)
 
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#2
Have you ever steered an auditor in the direction of a non-conformance that top management is reluctant to address. My example is outdated measuring equipment. It seems like I have battled for many years to obtain state of the art equipment. Thanks to a customer audit, things are changing. ;)
Absoultely .... hope my seniors are not seeing this one ;)
 
#3
Have you ever steered an auditor in the direction of a non-conformance that top management is reluctant to address. My example is outdated measuring equipment. It seems like I have battled for many years to obtain state of the art equipment. Thanks to a customer audit, things are changing. ;)
Indeed, many years ago, I was that auditor. The QM greeted me as I walked in, took me to shipping and showed me three products, wrapped on their skids and pointed out they were leaking oil. Short of laying in front of the fork lift, he couldn't stop them being shipped!

I wrote him a major - shipping non-conforming product - and he thanked me. That started the special 'visit' and I went back to clear the nc, 3 months later...he'd got a pay raise, (it was a while ago) and the Production manager was fired!:agree1:
 
#4
I have had several occasions of that. The management representative has often said "I want you to write that one up" when I first notice a problem as I start to investigate it. I like that. It saves a lot of time to just cut to the chase. I often jokingly tell that that I appreciated their confession without me putting on a priest collar.
 
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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
#5
While using an external auditor to accomplish things that can't get done via the internal channels, happens from time to time, CB auditors must be very careful and not allow themselves to be used as "weapons" in internal politics and all the games played by highly dysfunctional organizations.

Any finding (including nonconformities which require corrective actions) must be substantiated by objective evidence and be scrutinized against audit criteria.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#6
This isn't new and a good many of us may have experienced this situation, but as Sidney clearly stated, regardless of anyones wishes, an auditor has to have a specific requirement, and there must be specific and objective evidence of non-fulfillment of that requirement

(I can't believe I'm agreeing with Sidney!);)
 
#8
Come to think of it .... I have instances wherein the managers have said, " Well, lets see if the auditor finds it, then we will think how to fix. " ... :mg:
 
P

pldey42

#9
It's an advanced technique, not for the faint of heart, which requires fine political skill and the ability to steer the auditors without appearing to have done so.

The best quality managers are like magicians in this respect, able to force a card upon a suspicious auditor. The auditor knows the game and, as others have said, decides whether to be drawn into it or not on the basis of objective evidence and a sense of proportion, keeping in mind the business impact of other potential NCs.

In my experience they usually do it at the audit planning stage, by assuring that the problem area is in the audit sample and hoping the auditor spots it during the audit.

I think sometimes this is a useful service for outsiders - auditors or consultants - to perform. Delivering uncomfortable news is never popular and messengers often get shot. For 3rd parties, getting shot sometimes goes with the territory.

Quality managers often find themselves sounding like broken records, an irritant to be scratched but never fixed. Management cultures stabilize and preserve the status quo, itches and all. Sometimes the only thing that will shift them is an outside influence. It's like inviting a guest to dinner, seeing the mess you live in through their eyes and getting the vacuum cleaner out.
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
#10
Have you ever steered an auditor in the direction of a non-conformance that top management is reluctant to address. My example is outdated measuring equipment. It seems like I have battled for many years to obtain state of the art equipment. Thanks to a customer audit, things are changing. ;)
silentrunning,

Unfortunately it happens all the time. It is the human condition for the employees who do care (or fearful) to seek another authority if the ones in charge don't give a damn about the requirements.

Waiting for the auditor before making an improvement may also be evidence of a management system lacking integrity.

By management system I am not referring to a system of documents. I am including the many undocumented parts of the system such as leaders instilling care for the requirements.

In which case does the auditor also agree the evidence and issue a 5.4.2b nonconformity?

Or instead of reporting the second nonconformity, does the average auditor leave the lack of system integrity unreported?

John
 
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