Having a hard time closing CAR/ PAR

SheiLaJP

Involved In Discussions
#1
I have this problem that everytime a CAR/ PAR has been issued to process owners they tend to sometimes forget that they have been issued with this or do not understand how to answer their CAR/ PAR. I've done many instructions and constant reminders during our monthly meeting. I even remind them that they have open CAR/ PAR.

I hope you guys can help me.


:thanks:

SheiLaJP
 
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Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#2
You could perhaps think about this lack of response problem as a nonconformance, and think about doing a root cause analysis on the problem.

If you send them reminders, I doubt that they "forget".

If they truly "do not understand how to answer", and that is not just a weak excuse, perhaps training is in order, or helping them to complete the first one, etc.

Are these floor level people or upper level people who are not cooperating? Some more details might help us to help you.
 
#3
I have this problem that everytime a CAR/ PAR has been issued to process owners they tend to sometimes forget that they have been issued with this or do not understand how to answer their CAR/ PAR. I've done many instructions and constant reminders during our monthly meeting. I even remind them that they have open CAR/ PAR.

I hope you guys can help me.


:thanks:

SheiLaJP
How relevant to them is the reported issue? Are you reporting things in terms of "ISO" or similar? Because, people don't understand "ISO" so they won't understand what you're telling them...
 
P

PaulJSmith

#4
This is not unique to your situation, SheiLa. I used to work for a large aerospace firm where the same thing occurred on a regular basis. Even when CAPA is a common activity, there are some people who just don't want to do it. Our role there was to guide the process owners through the process. Most of the time, they would wait until the last minute to start on it, then cry that they needed help from Quality to get it done on time.

If retraining and reminders are not doing the trick, you'll probably have to go over their heads to get pressure from above. If top management doesn't deem it important, though, then you're just seeing a reflection of that in middle management. Not sure what recourse you'll have in that case, beyond perhaps some dings in audits.
 
#5
Even when CAPA is a common activity, there are some people who just don't want to do it. Our role there was to guide the process owners through the process. Most of the time, they would wait until the last minute to start on it, then cry that they needed help from Quality to get it done on time...
An important question to ask yourself, is what your role is helping to get these CARs implemented? As a Q.E. previously in medical devices and now in a TS company, I've learned that process owners in non-Quality departments aren't highly practiced in realizing the whole 8D process, and typically look to me to facilitate and write up the final reports. There are good reasons for this, as it can be tricky to balance the level of detail needed to zero in on a solid root cause and/ or adequately satisfy the Customer.

This doesn't mean that the process owner shouldn't be a leader, approver, and subject matter expert on a good CAR team. As the Quality person, it's really important to get the team together and focused, help drive the root cause analysis activities, and make corrections into systemic corrective action.

  • Lay the groundwork with footwork, visit with the process owner (and operators) at the affected area, and get a good idea of the problem.
  • Document any comments or directives made by upper management as a preliminary hypothesis or plan to attack the problem.
  • Get the team in the room and do brainstorming using the fishbone diagram, construct a 5-why root cause from the factors brainstormed, and develop good action items based on the elements of the root cause.
  • Usually, in practice it seems to take (at least) 2 good conference room meetings to get a solid plan hammered out.
  • Then, it's back to footwork to follow-up with the owner and help to organize the resources to overcome any roadblocks, revise the appropriate documentation as needed, and verify the completion of action items in order to close out the report.

:cool:Then you should be good to go...:cool:
 
Last edited:
P

PaulJSmith

#6
...I've learned that process owners in non-Quality departments aren't highly practiced in realizing the whole 8D process, and typically look to me to facilitate and write up the final reports.
Well, in our situation they were very well practiced. They just didn't want to do it. One Ops Mgr told me as much one day; "I'm trying to get you to do this for me, because I just don't want to do it. I don't have the time." Our CA process was exactly as you delineated in your post. Quality drove the process with carrots on sticks, and even some gentle nudges when necessary. Ultimately, though, it was left up to the respondent to complete the report. Some wouldn't even do that.

Which is my point previously; some people just don't want to be bothered with what they believe is Quality's job ... even though it's a fix for their process. I suspect this may be an underlying issue with the OP's situation.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
When someone 'just doesn't want to do it'. we need to understand why.
we need to approach This 'non-compliance' like any other. and unlike physics problems there are often multiple causal mechanisms...

Some of the causes I have are:
  • The non-compliance is trivial
  • The people receiving the CAR don't beleive there is a real solution
  • They don't know how to get to cause and/or they aren't aware of effective solutions (such as mistake proofing)
  • the culture of the company is not quality oriented
  • There are so many things wrong that they don't even know what to do first

your causes may be a subset of these or something all together different.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#8
I hope you guys can help me.
Escalate the issue to top management via the MR. Remeber, during management reviews, one of the mandatory items for review is the status of CAR's. If they are chronically delinquent, there is a systemic problem that needs addressing.

If the "leadership" (?) of the organization does not care if VALID problems are being prevented from recurring, the organization has a cultural roadblock to overcome towards modern quality management. And your "nagging" will be only that: nagging.
 

normzone

Trusted Information Resource
#9
All of the above is true, and good counsel, but...

I have resorted to conducting a weekly meeting. If you have an open CAR, your attendance is mandatory. I encourage attendance above and beyond who needs to be there, because valuable events occur there, but the carrot is -

If you are caught up on all your CAR responsibilities, your attendance is optional.

There's a carrot.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#10
All of the above is true, and good counsel, but...

I have resorted to conducting a weekly meeting. If you have an open CAR, your attendance is mandatory. I encourage attendance above and beyond who needs to be there, because valuable events occur there, but the carrot is -

If you are caught up on all your CAR responsibilities, your attendance is optional.

There's a carrot.
This is great if it works and you can get them to come. However, the OP said "they tend to sometimes forget that they have been issued with this" even though "I even remind them that they have open CAR/ PAR".

If they feel comfortable blowing off the CAR to begin with, they would probably feel comfortable blowing off the meeting as well. Both are "mandatory", right?

My gut tells me the OP has tried carrots and probably needs a stick. But it would be interesting to see what actually works, here, if anything does.
 
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