Health Care: Company "Wellness Programs"

[Marc]

Bulk Purchases vs. Individual Purchases

I wasn't looking to be political so much as cite the basic unfairness of discounts accorded to insurance companies versus the price charged to an individual patient by health care providers.

I know you weren't and you were not out of line. If I have ANY comment it is that 'bulk' purchase is always cheaper than 'individual' purchases. That is a 'standard' characteristic of an unregulated capitalistic system. If you want a tailor to make a suit for you it will cost you more than if you buy 'off the rack'.

There is an interesting account having to do with Sony back when the first small 9 volt portable transistor radios came out - what, the early 1960's - where Sony was supplying Zenith (If I remember correctly) and when Zenith asked for something like 3x the number of units for the following year. Sony raised the price. However, if Zenith wanted to keep the same number of delivered units to 1.5x or less, there would be a slight cost decrease. The reasons why are interesting. Basically it revolved around building a new manufacturing facility which would be needed to address the additional volume and accounted for 'risk'. Bulk - profit wise - is never a 'fair' system. Bulk is always cheaper.

"Every strike in the past decade has been over health-care issues," said Greg Denier, a UFCW spokesman. "It's a growing problem. The system is collapsing. More and more employers are abandoning their employees, shifting millions of dollars in costs on them."

How important is healthcare? Some thoughts...

(broken link removed)

 

[Mike S.]

I'm not saying you are wrong in your point, but, especially considering Marc's latest admonition, I'd like to see specifically where one (or preferably more) of these respected researchers like MIT actually came out and said what you said, that "the main reason health insurance prices are rising is NOT increased cost of health care, but the fact the insurance companies have taken such a beating in their investments." Strong statement. But listing a bunch of places where they talk about medical/insurance issues in general does not prove to me that anyone other than you came to this conclusion. Again, not saying you are wrong. Just skeptical.

And because I am still not comfortable making political statements, comments, references, or opinions of any sort or strength on these forums -- I'll just ask questions of those who do have the courage or permission.

 

[energy]

Relocated post here for "Continuity"

Actually, I'm not looking for a fight and I'm pretty thick-skinned when I'm sure I can back up a statement.

I'm more interested in the main subjects of the thread:

• health care,
• health care costs, and
• privacy

You might be interested in an item from the 10-21-2003 edition of the Chicago Tribune (broken link removed)
headlined: Patients caught in insurance disputes

Like it or not, insurance companies are a driving factor in health care, ranging from who gets coverage to deciding which providers knuckle under to the profit needs of the insurance companies. One of the major factors (do you need citations, Mike?) in the rise in health provider fees has been the increase in liability insurance premiums. Despite insurance company protests to the contrary, the rise in premiums is NOT supported by increased awards in lawsuits, but by the combination of investment losses and previous "loss leader" premium prices to gain market share when insurance companies were riding high on paper profits in investments.

Anecdotal comment here: One of my golfing buddies is a thoracic surgeon. He recently gave up his private practice and went to work for the Veteran's Administration health system because his liability (malpractice) insurance premium tripled in one year. In his new post, he pays NO liability premium (all covered by the VA) and estimates he will net about the same as before, with no hassle on collecting from third parties and no fights with the IRS over his writeoffs - he had been audited every year for 6 years, so now no exhorbitant accounting fees. Incidentally, although he had been sued over bad outcomes in the past, he had never lost or settled a malpractice case.

Is he happy? You bet. Did his previous hospital and community lose an excellent surgeon? You bet. Did his nurse and office staff lose their jobs? Yep. His only downside? He has a 30 minute commute instead of 15 minutes.

Under the guise of reducing fraud and making health care more efficient, providers and third party payers are rapidly eroding the privacy of individuals before, during, and after they receive any health care benefit. More instances of individuals being denied care (because they are "high risk") are reported than cases of "fraud."

Ask yourself:

1. Did I ever contemplate "fraud" when it came to getting health care?
2. Do I know anyone who willingly "fakes" an illness or injury in order to spend time in a hospital and get disability payments?
3. Do I know more people who have been shafted by the system and do not receive payment when they really deserve it?

In my opinion (note, Mike, MY OPINION), "universal health care" (as practiced in various countries) still hasn't developed a good working model. Statistics are easy to come by (GOOGLE for the skeptic) which list long waits for standard care, denials of extraordinary care, disparity in care between urban and rural areas, lack of technological advances or utilization.

What we need is a system much better than our USA model of public schools which exhibits similar problems to universal health care (a wide variation between good schools and bad ones.) Most folks agree that education is a societal responsibility and that wealthy folks, religious folks, etc. can opt their children out of the public school system and school them at their own expense if they choose. That does not relieve them of obligation to pay a fair share toward the public education system over and above what they pay to private or religious institutions for their own kids.

If most folks agree on education as a societal responsibility, what prevents them from thinking that health care is also a societal responsibility?

Do I care what political party claims the issue? NO! Do I want to argue politics? NO! Are politics going to be necessary to resolve the issue? YES! Hiding our heads in the sand will not change that.

I agree that a forum like this can and should be limited to discussing issues and possible solutions, but those solutions should not include espousing a political party. The solutions should speak for themselves. Just as we pledge in these forums to agree with or attack ideas and opinions, not individuals, so should we pledge to deal with the issue, not the party or politician currently for or against the issue. (I say "currently" because we are aware that positions on issues change from time to time for a variety of reasons.)

The fact is nobody has yet come up with a workable solution for our current health care issues. (Nor have I, least of all.)

Moved here from the Rules Discussion 2 thread.

 

[Neil]

Interestingly enough, there is no correlation between stretching and the avoidance of muscle pulls and strains. It is a complete myth. To avoid injury you must warm up the muscles gently. Five minutes on a stationary bike is ideal. Stretching is beneficial after excercise not before it. In fact, some injuries are actually initiated by cold stretching. If you think about it is makes sense.

 

[Mike S.]

Interestingly enough, there is no correlation between stretching and the avoidance of muscle pulls and strains. It is a complete myth. To avoid injury you must warm up the muscles gently. Five minutes on a stationary bike is ideal. Stretching is beneficial after excercise not before it. In fact, some injuries are actually initiated by cold stretching. If you think about it is makes sense.

Interesting turn of this thread.

Actually I think it depends on the situation and person to some degree. Of course I only have anecdotal evidence off the top of my head, but I have an old injury that I know if I don't stretch before I get into some heavy work will give me a fit. I also still see world-class athletes from track and field to football to baseball do stretches before they do their thing, and I imagine they have world-class coaches who are up on all the latest research. Maybe they do light overall warm-ups before stretching, and maybe they stretch after the game/event too, but they surely still do it before their serious exertion as well.

 

[CINDY]

Stretching was an absolute must when I was in gymnastics. How can you expect your muscles to work under stress if you don't warm them up. I have tried to do some activities before stretching and poor performance is observed, however, after warming up and doing some exercises, performance improves.

Sorry, Neil, I can't agree.

Cindy