Heat Treat - Verifying mechanical properties on heat treated material per the ASTM

#1
What is everyone's opinion on verifying mechanical properties on heat treated material per the ASTM spec for heat treated material. The mechanical properties are listed on the material cert for annealed state but we currently do not check them after heat treat. This material is used for medical devices and are we to assume that if the mechanical properties are correct in the annealed state they will be to spec in the heat treated state if done correctly to the ASTM?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: Heat Treat - Verifying mechanical properties on heat treated material per the AST

are we to assume that if the mechanical properties are correct in the annealed state they will be to spec in the heat treated state if done correctly to the ASTM?
Assuming is counter intuitive to managing risks. If the mechanical properties are critical for product safety/integrity, you most definitely need to verify mechanical properties, post heat treatment, especially because heat treatment is a "special" process which not always deliver the intended results.
 
#3
Re: Heat Treat - Verifying mechanical properties on heat treated material per the AST

I agree but this has never been required by the customer just the original material cert and the RC value. It would not be possible to send out hundreds of jobs a week to be tested as they are heat treated individually. Bar stock is possible.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: Heat Treat - Verifying mechanical properties on heat treated material per the AST

Maybe you can sample test either a finished product, post heat treat, which, would likely mean a destructive test, or you can run a representative "coupon" (from the bar stock) with the products being heat treated and have the coupon tested for the mechanical properties.
 
Last edited:

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Re: Heat Treat - Verifying mechanical properties on heat treated material per the AST

I have never heard such a thing. I would be leery. The properties would possibly likely change as you worked the material anyway. I know we deal with work hardening a lot. It would seem to me, once the part is made, then the mechanical properties of the part take over and the astm spec is not all that relevant. Find yourself a metallurgist and see what they think.
 

vivkrish

Involved In Discussions
#6
Re: Heat Treat - Verifying mechanical properties on heat treated material per the AST

I agree but this has never been required by the customer just the original material cert and the RC value. It would not be possible to send out hundreds of jobs a week to be tested as they are heat treated individually. Bar stock is possible.
Hello,

For heat treated materials Hardness verification is enough. We can conclude mechanical properties by hardness(Vickers hardness is preferable).

But the agreement between you and your customer states what are the properties you need to verify.

Hardness is non destructive testing only. You may have the hardness tester in your plant also. Which reduces the time spend to verify the material.

possessing hardness tester is mandatory for surface treatment company.
 

suffelde

Involved In Discussions
#7
Re: Heat Treat - Verifying mechanical properties on heat treated material per the AST

Which ASTM spec? For instance, ASTM A105 allows you to use the mechanical properties found from one heat treat lot (providing it is the same mill heat lot) and use those values on subsequent heat treat lots if the same cycle is used and the furnace has a recorder - not a direct quote but the substance is the same.

Are you certifying to that ASTM spec? Has the customer given you a variance from the ASTM spec?

Where is the data / proof there are no product integrity issues in your overall or a specific heat cycle ?

What does your risk assessment address?

There is a correlation between hardness values and tensile properties - if you have enough statistical data, then one might be able to use just hte hardness test as verification of a proper process.

Overall, a process - special or not - requires a feedback function in order to ensure the process was effective.

Depending on the end product's form, fit, or function, I would be very concerned about not having an effectively implemented feed-back process and it would definitely raise product integrity issues.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
T Heat treat test dimple Manufacturing and Related Processes 3
I AS9100 PPAP requirements for outside Heat Treat vendors/suppiers AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
S AMS 2750E Heat Treat Furnace System Accuracy Test SAT Report question AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
M AMS2770 Aluminum Heat Treat - Determining Soak Time Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 1
Q Heat Treat Steel, Rockwell C - Variability in Complex Machined Shapes Manufacturing and Related Processes 7
P NADCAP Certified - Heat Treat Continuous Belt Driven Oven question AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
V Is there a Heat Treat certification that is required at PPAP? APQP and PPAP 4
R CQI-9 Heat Treat Assessment Services recommendations wanted IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
V Is the CQI-9 Heat Treat Assessment performed by a 3rd Party Auditor APQP and PPAP 1
S Special Gages for Measuring Pre-Heat Treat Thread Size Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 3
V CQI-9 Heat Treat System Assessment Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 11
V What should I require of a Heat Treat PPAP? Surface Hardness per SAE J664 APQP and PPAP 1
L Plug Gages and Tapered Holes - Compensation for Heat Treat Distortion General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
L Heat Treat Calibration Records - API 6a sec 5.8 and annex M Requirements Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 3
I Medical, Vacuum Heat Treat or Not if Subsequent Finishing Operations are Performed Benchmarking 3
D Foreward Looking KPI's (Key Performance Indicators) - Heat Treat Company Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 4
M Heat Treat Data - Best method for determining the capability of a carburizing process Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 3
F Recent ISO 9001 audit - Pallet/spool heat treat records ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
R Is Ford's W-HTX heat treat survey replaced by CQI-9? Customer and Company Specific Requirements 15
D Aircraft Training Standard - TI-2000-01 Training for Heat Treat Personnel AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
A How do you identify your heat treat capability study samples? Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 3
K I am looking for CQI-9 "Heat treat system assessment" Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 3
B FORD Supplier CQI-9 rollout letter, Oct. 16th, 2006 - Heat treat suppliers Customer and Company Specific Requirements 1
B Application of CQI-9 Heat Treat Survey for an Annealing Process - Steel Coils Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 8
C 6061-T6 Aluminum - Any reason Heat Treat can't hit Minimum of RB/50? Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 12
L Heat Treat anaylsis quench cracks - Seeking possible causes Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 1
Tom W PFMEA for Heat Treat Service Provider - Trying To Develop RPNs FMEA and Control Plans 11
G Does Outsource of Processes refer to things like heat treat of the product? Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 5
M Control chart application for post heat treat processes Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 4
D Receiving Inspection by Subcontractors? Heat Treat Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1
S Heat Sealers Upper and lower limit setting during OQ for Heat Sealer Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 0
R MSA studies for Heat Treatment Equipment Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
Kuldeep Singh Calculating Heat Dissipation Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
B API Q1 5.7.1.5 Process Validation - Machining, heat treating, Manganese Phosphate and Zinc Plating Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
G Heat Number on CofC - Stainless steel tube Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
K Moist Heat Sterilization worldwide Requirements and Regulations Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 1
D Minor non-conformance for not receiving a CofC from a heat treater Manufacturing and Related Processes 10
Ron Rompen The Effect of Heat on Production and Quality Human Factors and Ergonomics in Engineering 14
S Performing PQ on a Small (tabletop) Air Heat Treating Oven ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
M API 6D-2014 24th Ed. Pto 6.10 - Heat Treatment Equipment Qualifications Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 4
H Standards to use for Propylene Glycol Heat/Cooler Fluid in a Device RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 2
C Practical use of Heat Input calculation for Manual MIG Welding Manufacturing and Related Processes 4
S Heat Treatment - Soaking time interpretation Manufacturing and Related Processes 5
S Industrial Aseptic Bag Heat Sealing Sampling and Qualification Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
elkel CQI 9 (Heat Treatment) Assessment Requirements - Company and Customer Requirements Customer and Company Specific Requirements 1
S Paperless Temperature Recorder for Temperature Surveys on Heat Treatment Ovens General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
G SPC in Heat Treatment Workshop Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 2
S Heat Map ISO/TS 16949:2009 Clauses IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
S Thermal Sensitivity Testing - Heat Lamp - ILY - Increased blood circulation IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 2
F Heat and Moisture Oxygen Port Changes Classification 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 4

Similar threads

Top Bottom