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Help for beginner - PPAP (Production Part Approval Process)

B

blue_cove

#1
Hello,

I have a bit urgent matter relating with PPAP. Recently I began new work in the section of the quality (I am still on the tentative period). I deal with collating PPAP from tradesmen at present. And certain problem appears here - to collect PPAP is one, but to accept this, it is second. I am just before training from PPAP and do not have the experience on what I should return the attention confirming PPAP. What documents tradesmen should send me I already know and have them in the majority of cases. I know what also generally individual documents are characterize (Control plan, Flow greyhound, PFMEA, AAR etc .). There is the situation now that I have from the tradesman all necessary documents, forms are ok. But I take to the hand Control plan or PFMEA and I do not know on what I really should look, what is essential, what mistakes I should catch.

Could you help me ? Thank you.
Ann
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Help - PPAP

Hello,

I have a bit urgent matter relating with PPAP. Recently I began new work in the section of the quality (I am still on the tentative period). I deal with collating PPAP from tradesmen at present. And certain problem appears here - to collect PPAP is one, but to accept this, it is second. I am just before training from PPAP and do not have the experience on what I should return the attention confirming PPAP. What documents tradesmen should send me I already know and have them in the majority of cases. I know what also generally individual documents are characterize (Control plan, Flow greyhound, PFMEA, AAR etc .). There is the situation now that I have from the tradesman all necessary documents, forms are ok. But I take to the hand Control plan or PFMEA and I do not know on what I really should look, what is essential, what mistakes I should catch.

Could you help me ? Thank you.
Ann
Hello Ann. Welcome to The Cove Forums! :bigwave: :bigwave:

Just for clarification: when you say "tradesmen", are you referring to suppliers? If so, are you responsible for reviewing and approving PPAP's submitted by your suppliers? If you are, you should be competent in the PPAP process and all activities involved. Can you clarify?

Also, your company should have established PPAP submission requirements for your suppliers. Do you know what these are?

In the mean time, you can do a search about PPAP here. There's a lot of good information available. if you can's find it, let us know and we'll help.

Stijloor.
 
D

Detbyron

#3
Re: Help - PPAP

Hello,


I have a bit urgent matter relating with PPAP. Recently I began new work in the section of the quality (I am still on the tentative period). I deal with collating PPAP from tradesmen at present. And certain problem appears here - to collect PPAP is one, but to accept this, it is second. I am just before training from PPAP and do not have the experience on what I should return the attention confirming PPAP. What documents tradesmen should send me I already know and have them in the majority of cases. I know what also generally individual documents are characterize (Control plan, Flow greyhound, PFMEA, AAR etc .). There is the situation now that I have from the tradesman all necessary documents, forms are ok. But I take to the hand Control plan or PFMEA and I do not know on what I really should look, what is essential, what mistakes I should catch.

Could you help me ? Thank you.

Ann
Does your company have the Reference Manuals?
https://www.aiag.org/source/Orders/index.cfm?section=orders&task=3&CATEGORY=CORETOOLS&PRODUCT_TYPE=SALES&SKU=APQP&DESCRIPTION=&FindSpec=Control%20Plan&CFTOKEN=93335392&continue=1&SEARCH_TYPE=FIND&StartRow=1&PageNum=1
https://www.aiag.org/source/Orders/...tinue=1&SEARCH_TYPE=FIND&StartRow=1&PageNum=1
 
Last edited by a moderator:
B

blue_cove

#5
Re: Help - PPAP

Hello,

Yes I’m responsible for collecting, reviewing and approving PPAP from our suppliers. And that’s true that I should be competent in the PPAP process but I’m not :eek: My boss gives me this job because nobody wants to do it. I’m waiting for training in this area but before it I have to accept some of PPAP – that’s way I’m writing and asking for your help.

Also, your company should have established PPAP submission requirements for your suppliers” – frankly speaking I don’t know what it is – but I suppose we don’t have it :confused:

I also have a Reference Manuals – I read it but still I not sure/know how I should start this job.

I contact with all our suppliers asking for PPAP on level 3. Most of them send me already all documentation. Now I should reviewing and approving PPAP but I don’t know how :frust:

Ann
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Re: Help - PPAP

Hello,

Yes I’m responsible for collecting, reviewing and approving PPAP from our suppliers. And that’s true that I should be competent in the PPAP process but I’m not :eek: My boss gives me this job because nobody wants to do it. I’m waiting for training in this area but before it I have to accept some of PPAP – that’s way I’m writing and asking for your help.

Also, your company should have established PPAP submission requirements for your suppliers” – frankly speaking I don’t know what it is – but I suppose we don’t have it :confused:

I also have a Reference Manuals – I read it but still I not sure/know how I should start this job.

I contact with all our suppliers asking for PPAP on level 3. Most of them send me already all documentation. Now I should reviewing and approving PPAP but I don’t know how :frust:

Ann
Ann,

I would not even know how to start. :mg: It looks that your boss dumped (instead of delegated) this into your lap.

Somewhere there should be a contract, purchase order, etc., that should spell out certain requirements for your suppliers. Ask your boss where that stuff is. Maybe in the purchasing department?

Next, ask your boss for formal training in all PPAP activities required for PPAP. Putting someone in a position for which this person is not trained competent, is a clear violation of ISO/TS. I do not admire your position. Is there someone that can help you to at least get started?

If you have specific PPAP questions, please post them.

Stijloor.
 

Manix

Get Involved!!!
Trusted Information Resource
#7
Re: Help - PPAP

Ann,

I would not even know how to start. :mg: It looks that your boss dumped (instead of delegated) this into your lap.

Somewhere there should be a contract, purchase order, etc., that should spell out certain requirements for your suppliers. Ask your boss where that stuff is. Maybe in the purchasing department?

Next, ask your boss for formal training in all PPAP activities required for PPAP. Putting someone in a position for which this person is not trained competent, is a clear violation of ISO/TS. I do not admire your position. Is there someone that can help you to at least get started?

If you have specific PPAP questions, please post them.

Stijloor.
I echo stijloors recommendations, though I feel a contract or purchase order will be of little help in your situation, as this will simply state the requirement for the document, not help the understanding of that document.

Formal PPAP training is a must, though I must confess to only having had PFMEA formal training, PPAP I was left with the reference manuals, my own brain and the Elsmar Cove :)

You will find a wealth of information here that is very useful.

You may find it useful to understand the essence and the linkages between the three main documents:

- Process Flow - A diagrammatic illustration of the flow of the process, from operation to operation. The level of detail and format is still pretty much up to you but many options are available and discussed on the cove.

- PFMEA - Process Failure Mode and Effects analysis. Each stage identified on your process flow must be covered in the PFMEA process. This is where the risk of things going wrong within the process that effect the products ultimate quality, or the operators safety. Please, although you are reviewing a document, the PFMEA is a process You need to be proficient in the process of risk identification and control/mitigation, if you are to effectively assess the quality of the document from your supplier, so I believe it is critical you have FMEA training, so you understand the process of FMEA.

- Control Plan - The document used to document the controls identified (in the PFMEA process) to mitigate/control the risk of things going wrong either in the process or in the products life cycle (its use).

This is just a brief overview, but one final important point is, from the start understand the product and the process. A lack of understanding of either means you cannot effectively review the PPAP documentation and approve it.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
Re: Help - PPAP

I echo stijloors recommendations, though I feel a contract or purchase order will be of little help in your situation, as this will simply state the requirement for the document, not help the understanding of that document.
The reason I brought this up so that Ann only had to focus on the PPAP documents required by her company. Her company may only require a minimum number of items to be submitted which would shorten Ann's "learning time." And that of course we don't know. She is not in a good situation.

Stijloor.
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Re: Help - PPAP

Formal PPAP training is a must, though I must confess to only having had PFMEA formal training, PPAP I was left with the reference manuals, my own brain and the Elsmar Cove :)
I was in the same boat many years ago. Doing PPAPs was dumped in my lap but the company I was working for would not send me for formal training - I had absolutely no experience with any of it: control plans, PFMEAs - none of it. It was many, many years before I discovered the cove, but I did have the manuals and the good fortune to be working with an awesome SQA who spent a good deal of time answering questions, sending me examples, etc.

Is there anyone at your organization that can tutor you, Ann?

Oh, and welcome to the cove!!:bigwave:
 
B

blue_cove

#10
Hello,

I don’t know if I should to happy that I started so big discussion on this case.
I suppose that it is very rarely situation like my. For clarification I should say that to the 28 November I should reviewing and accept all PPAP from my supplier – this term is forced by my customer.
One of you wrote about the documents which PPAP should contain – this think I know luckily.
The problem is that if I received a documentation from supplier for example control plan or PFMEA, it is hard to say for me if this documentation is ok for 100%. Every documentation form supplier I have but I don’t know if it is correct. One person told me that for example:
- Control plan – should contain information exactly how many pieces should be controlled and how often (I had supplier that send me control plan in which he didn’t gives me information about controlled pieces or frequency. Instead he wrote that that component is controlled according they internal documentation)
- PFMEA – if importance is 10 that means that RPN should be below (if I’m not wrong) 60, if we have importance 6-8, RPN should be below 100. If RPN were crossed the supplier should make the correction actions which should reduce RPN
- SPC – Cpk, Ppk should be up than 1,33
I suppose that if I’m reviewing the documentation from my supplier I should focus on some important points in this papers – but I don’t know what points are important, for me everything is very important.
I even don’t have anyone who could help me in my job – there is nobody who have experience in this mater.
But because from tomorrow I should started to accept the PPAP nothing will change my bad situation.
I would like to know also what will happen if I accept wrong PPAP or PPAP with mistakes ? – it is possible to change it some how ?

Thank you for every your help.
Ann
 
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