Help with 8.5.1 regarding Welding Procedure Specifications (WPS's)

Puck81

Starting to get Involved
#1
We recently had an audit for ISO 9001:2015 and API Q1. We have our own process sheets (Weld Procedures) for each part number we run in our weld department. The initial first piece is cut and verified by our Metallurgist (We also have an in-house Induction HT department). We were cited for not having actual certified WPS's. We do not have an in-house CWI to complete the WPS's and would need to use a 3rd party to certify them. My question is, per ISO 9001:2015 8.5.1 (F), are we required to have certified WPS's if we already have our own proven weld procedures?
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Moderator
#2
Re: Need help with 8.5.1 regarding Welding Procedure Specifications (WPS's)

My question is, per ISO 9001:2015 8.5.1 (F), are we required to have certified WPS's if we already have our own proven weld procedures?
ISO 9001 requires you to have validated processes. It does not require external certifications.

Do you have any customer requirements for this?
 

Puck81

Starting to get Involved
#3
Re: Need help with 8.5.1 regarding Welding Procedure Specifications (WPS's)

We currently do not have customer requirements for WPS's or PQR's. We establish the process, validate with a cut sample, and send that documentation to our customers if required.

We have passed ISO 9001 audits since the mid-90's with no findings regarding a certified WPS for our welding. Our last ISO 9001:2008 audit was June 2015 with no findings regarding weld. We then transferred to API as our registrar and they used the API Q1 standard:

API Q1 Clause 5.7.1.5 (c)
The organization shall maintain a documented procedure to address methods for review and approval of the processes including:
c) Use of specific methods, including identified operating parameters.

API gave us a nonconformance for "there was no evidence that Weld Procedure Specifications (WPS's) were documented for any part or weld performed."
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Moderator
#4
Re: Need help with 8.5.1 regarding Welding Procedure Specifications (WPS's)

I'm not an expert on API, but I can read what the requirement says. It sounds like your weld process sheets would meet the API requirements you posted. It's possible that the auditor is used to seeing the procedures called WPS because of common AWS or ASME terminology.

If it was me, I would push back and show them evidence that you do have documented "methods, including identified operating parameters" that you don't call Weld Procedure Specifications.
 

tonefordays

Involved In Discussions
#5
First, I will say I am not familiar with API Q1 requirements, however per AWS welding code requirements, it generally is the responsibility of the manufacturer or contractor to generate and qualify their welding procedures. If a third party is needed to help in this process, it is still the contractors responsibility to make sure the proper steps are taken, and to verify compliance. It is not a CWI's responsibility to develop WPS's or sign them, although they could. After the contractor has developed the WPS, and it has been proven with a procedure qualification record (PQR) and tested per the code requirements, at this point the contractor signs the WPS, "certifying" the information is valid based on the test results, you now have a certified WPS.
It's not uncommon for a company to have WPS's neatly tucked away on a shelf, however it is important that the welders follow these procedures, and know how to read and interpret the information on the WPS, and also have access to these so they know that the WPS is applicable to the work they're doing.
:2cents:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#6
My question is, per ISO 9001:2015 8.5.1 (F), are we required to have certified WPS's if we already have our own proven weld procedures?
What type of products do you deal with? Many API Specs have specific requirements for approval of WPS's and welders. For example, the requirements copied below are in API Spec 7K for Drilling and Well Servicing Equipment.

 

Puck81

Starting to get Involved
#8
API Q1 Clause 5.7.1.5c referenced

"The organization shall maintain a documented procedure to address methods for review and approval of the processes including use of specific methods, including identified operating parameters."

We are planning to drop our API certification and just stick with ISO 9001 since the API cert did not help in maintaining or gaining any new business. This is why I am looking to verify whether we would need WPS's with a CWI signature, or if we would be able to use our in-house weld procedure. I included a blank weld procedure, which we call a process sheet. If we have all of this outlined, and have our Weld Lead person authorize the procedure, do we still need more?
 

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Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
API Q1 Clause 5.7.1.5c referenced

"The organization shall maintain a documented procedure to address methods for review and approval of the processes including use of specific methods, including identified operating parameters."

We are planning to drop our API certification and just stick with ISO 9001 since the API cert did not help in maintaining or gaining any new business. This is why I am looking to verify whether we would need WPS's with a CWI signature, or if we would be able to use our in-house weld procedure. I included a blank weld procedure, which we call a process sheet. If we have all of this outlined, and have our Weld Lead person authorize the procedure, do we still need more?
You have a procedure that defines the way you process, and validate welding, correct?

If so, then what I read as stated in the NC below, the NC is unjustified in my opinion. Now if you don't have the procedures, then the NC is justified.

"The organization shall maintain a documented procedure to address methods for review and approval of the processes including use of specific methods, including identified operating parameters."

Just my opinion.
 

Eredhel

QA Manager
Trusted
#10
It's not a valid NC for ISO 9001. And although I only know enough about API to be dangerous I don't think it's even a valid NC for API. Now API has specific product standard requirements like 11D1, and those can have some very specific requirements. But they don't apply to API as a whole unless specifically called out by the customer for that particular product.
 

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