Help with an Internal Audit for ISO9001:2000

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RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#22
My take on the whole situation is that there are many issues at work here, and just as what happens when several weather systems collide, a super storm has emerged.

Darren Durney said:
I wrote a new Quality Manual for the company I work for and during my BSI audit we gained a non-conformance for no internal audits being done this was due to my predecessor who obviously did not do any.
As others have stated, this should have been more than a non-conformance. The whole purpose of internal audits is to assess conformance to requirements...the standard, the organization's internal requirements, customer requirements, etc.

While I give you points for your ability to get it to this level, the finding will add no value to your organization unless something is done.

Darren Durney said:
Now I have wrote an internal audit form up, the question I have is though as nobody understands or is clearly interested in quality unless there is a problem
Do folks understand and take an interest in having a job? If Customers become tired of dealing with substandard products/service, they will look elsewhere...and that impacts your organization's bottomline. No Customers = No Money = No Company = No Jobs. That's a harsh fact of business life. You may perhaps have a monopoly on the market right now, but what's status quo today will be "status no" tomorrow.

The whole concept of $$$ is usually enough to capture people's attention and assist in the awareness of why it's important to meet (customer) requirements....aka quality.

Darren Durney said:
how do I conduct this audit as it asks specific questions in relation to the system. Can you help me out a bit I have added my document for you to look at just incase I have maybe overdone it a bit.
With all due respect, I took one look at your form and immediately tossed it into my mental recycling box. It's complicated...confusing...and clinical. And that's from both an auditor and auditee standpoint.

Who is this form for?

Auditors need to have checklists ahead of time with questions and potential audit trails.

Auditees want a report stating what they were audited to and the findings (okay, some verbage on what they did well besides ordering a stellar lunch for everyone).

Two forms. Checklist and Report. One is for the Auditor...one is for the Auditee.

The Auditee doesn't want to know (again) what you looked at and the "Who" part ignores the confidientiality aspect of an audit - we're not supposed to say who said what (i.e., it's that whole finger-pointing thing we're trying to avoid). That stuff does not go into the report....it's for your checklist.

I strongly suggest you do a search in the Cove and you should find some checklists. If you don't however, here's a quick summary of my own - I can not attach due to confidientality:
  • Header - obligatory audit info like names of auditors, who I spoke with, process being audited, blah blah blah
  • A list of the 'shall' statements and - in italics - examples of potential audit trails specific to my organization.
  • Checkboxes for S (Satisfactory), O (Opportunity for Improvement), F (Failure to Conform), NA (Not Applicable).
  • Comments section - where I write my notes from the audit and type in my questions from my preparation stage (this shows how questions align with requirements and demonstrates that all 'shalls' have been audited).

Hope all this helps.
 
#23
Darren - one Brit to another.......

You seem to think that 'making a difference' here, is about internal audit form design. It isn't, of course. In fact, I wouldn't spend any effort on anything to do with internal audit forms. I'd be looking into trying to tie in how/where you do audits to get someone's attention there, to get them to see that money is being wasted, customer's disatisfied etc, because you don't have a robust, systematic approach to running business. While the CB auditor (and it isn't just BSi who do these things, either) has done you no favours, you have to take control of the audits you do.

The past is the past. Learn from it, and use it to your advantage to turn the ship around. Management won't get it. As Sidney says, they won't magically see they need training. You have to do something different to deliver a 'wow' to someone there. And, believe me, someone will notice, if you speak to them in their language - MONEY!

So, find a process which is causing problems and go find out why! Throw away that form - it's too restrictive (and if your training emphsized this approach too, ask for your money back!).

You could do worse than get a (sharp) pencil and a blank sheet of paper.....
 

Doug Tropf

Quite Involved in Discussions
#24
Gooofii thanks for the help much appreciated I will give it a go maybe it might be the best to try and start off simple and the evolve things instead of me trying to think they might understand.


If I have missed any questions I apologise I will try and read through everything again tonight and reply, but to be honest the short end of the stick lies with me no commitment from Top Management and I think that is why so many have passed before me, but I am stubborn and will plod on if my willpower will allow me too.
It appears you have your hands full. The attachment in your first post (an audit report format) does not fully meet the standard's requirements for a documented internal audit program. Not having Management Reviews at planned intervals should have also been a NC. We have the same CB and based on my experience with them, I'm surprised at the apparently inept audit you received. Your posts indicate you know what needs to be done so good luck.
 
Last edited:
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Darren Durney

#25
Thank you all for the feedback it has helped I have since ditched my complicated form and wrote an new one to incorportae questions, this has been introduced by me doing my first audit and so far it has gone well for me.

Thanks once again to everyone i appreciate your time and efforts
 

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#26
Hi Darren
Our Audit Report is almost the same format with the 8 Discipline Format:
1. Establish a Team which includes the Auditor, Auditee and Acknowledgement of Auditee's Supervisor.
2. Describe the Problem - in which the classification of nonconformance is addressed: Major, Minor, Observation and Recurring.
3. Contaiment Action - Check inventory 100%, Sampling / Surveillance Audit
4. Define the Problem - Identify the most probable cause through the use of Root Cause Analysis tools, i.e. 5Y / C&E / Fault Tree Analysis / Is or Is Not.
5. Corrective Action
6. Preventive Action through FMEA, and other quality or continual improvement.
7. Recognize Team by accepting the corrective and preventive action provided by the Auditee.
Each heading has a verification status to validate whether the action item is done or not done.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Raffy:cool:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#27
Neither did the auditor who should have....:tg:

That seems to be so in this case and it's beyond my understanding. I have never even heard the phrase "advisory non-conformance" uttered and I can't find any reference to it. This kinda jumps out and bites you right in the fanny "no internal audit". There has got to be something else to explain the outcome here.:confused:
 
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