How can we do MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) for Chemical Process Equipment?

#1
I'm now in the midst of setting up MSA for the company. I've encountered several equipments which i think i may need some inputs frm the member.

1) The laboratory has burettes to measure the concentrate of the chemical. The usage of the burette is to drop certain acid onto a chemical solution. Once the color changes, the lab assistant will stop the procedure and calculate the amount of acid used. This will determine the chemical concentrate.

2) There's this jig to measure the viscosity of the chemical. The procedure is to pour the chemical into the jig. Once it is full, the lab assistant will release the chemical via a tiny pin-hole. At the same time he will start the stop watch. Once the steady flow discontinue, he will stop the watch and determine the time. This will be used to calculate the viscosity.

Can we measure the MSA for these equipments ?? Thanks
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
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#2
YKT said:
I'm now in the midst of setting up MSA for the company. I've encountered several equipments which i think i may need some inputs frm the member.

1) The laboratory has burettes to measure the concentrate of the chemical. The usage of the burette is to drop certain acid onto a chemical solution. Once the color changes, the lab assistant will stop the procedure and calculate the amount of acid used. This will determine the chemical concentrate.
I'm not familiar enough with use of the equipment to make a reliable recommendation (if you're not familiar with what burette is, look here), but it seems to me that if the accuracy of the burette is known, and the analysis is controlled for the method and chemicals used, you should be able to set up a study, perhaps using the ANOVA method. Maybe a Cover with more direct chem lab experience than me can give you some ideas.

YKT said:
2) There's this jig to measure the viscosity of the chemical. The procedure is to pour the chemical into the jig. Once it is full, the lab assistant will release the chemical via a tiny pin-hole. At the same time he will start the stop watch. Once the steady flow discontinue, he will stop the watch and determine the time. This will be used to calculate the viscosity.
That device is called a Zahn cup and yes, you can do MSA for it. I suggest that you avail yourself of the AIAG 3rd Edition MSA manual and refer to Chapter IV, Section A (Practices for COmplex or Non-Replicable Measurement Systems) guidance. The manual may be ordered from the AIAG website.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#3
Would anyone, by chance, have a standard procedure for MSA on burettes, or other glassware, to share here?
 
D

Dave Dunn

#4
I don't have a lot of experience with this kind of equipment, but we did do some testing of viscosity using a rotating auger type viscometer. Calibration of this device is done using a certified fluid of known viscosity which we purchased. Maybe a similar fluid could be used along with the stopwatch to verify flow rates.
 
B

Bill Pflanz

#5
I have some experience with lab equipment but minimal experience with MSA. It seems to me what is driving the request for an MSA is to meet AIAG requirements not necessarily to improve the testing.

Using burettes for titration tests has been around for a long time. The companies that make the burettes probably certify their use for that purpose. The accuracy, precision, repeatability etc. has also probably been thoroughly studied and done by the manufacturers. As a consumer of their products, I doubt if you could do an MSA as complete as they have done. Chemical companies do not try to duplicate these studies but rely on the supplier to verify the equipment as purchased will perform as stated. If you need documentation for ISO 9000 registration, it normally can be supplied for either "instrument".

Since I am not familiar with AIAG requirements, I am not sure what they require for an MSA. It makes you wonder if the requirement is just there because it is or because it serves a useful purpose. Many tests can be done on chemicals but not all are quality critical for the final end use. Some are done as a quick check to verify that it is the stated chemical or to learn something for controlling the process. It sounds to me like it is over kill.

Bill Pflanz
 
T

tristan

#6
Hi Jim, all,

That device is called a Zahn cup and yes, you can do MSA for it. I suggest that you avail yourself of the AIAG 3rd Edition MSA manual and refer to Chapter IV, Section A (Practices for COmplex or Non-Replicable Measurement Systems) guidance.
referring to pages 145 and 151 of AIAG MSA Manual 3rd ed, these studies take into account an analysis to include all support instruments, ie cup + timer + thermometer.... would it be safe to do a study per instrument? say, bias study for timer and thermometer, and GRR to check on reproducibility of each instrument usage?

thanks!
 
D

DsqrdDGD909

#7
I'm now in the midst of setting up MSA for the company. I've encountered several equipments which i think i may need some inputs frm the member.

1) The laboratory has burettes to measure the concentrate of the chemical. The usage of the burette is to drop certain acid onto a chemical solution. Once the color changes, the lab assistant will stop the procedure and calculate the amount of acid used. This will determine the chemical concentrate.

2) There's this jig to measure the viscosity of the chemical. The procedure is to pour the chemical into the jig. Once it is full, the lab assistant will release the chemical via a tiny pin-hole. At the same time he will start the stop watch. Once the steady flow discontinue, he will stop the watch and determine the time. This will be used to calculate the viscosity.

Can we measure the MSA for these equipments ?? Thanks
Maybe I'm just too new - but wouldn't one solution be to do a gauge R&R study on these instruments using known standards and calculate the method variability?

D2
 
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