How do you apply Clause 8.2.2.4 from TS 16949 (Internal Audits)

L

luciano

#1
How do you apply 8.2.2.4. from TS 16949 ?
“ When internal/external nonconformities or customer complains occur the audit frequency shall be appropriately increase”
What do you understand by “appropriately “ How do yo apply it?
Do you have specific rules? After every complain are you performing an audit ? Only for reoccurrence?
Thanks
God bless you.
 
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D
#2
Re: How do you apply 8.2.2.4. from TS 16949

How do you apply 8.2.2.4. from TS 16949 ?
“ When internal/external nonconformities or customer complains occur the audit frequency shall be appropriately increase”
What do you understand by “appropriately “ How do yo apply it?
Do you have specific rules? After every complain are you performing an audit ? Only for reoccurrence?
Thanks
God bless you.
Typically for my organization, the Quality Manager, sometimes along with the General Manager, would review the customer complaints and or non-conformities. It they felt the evidence required additional auditis, they would set the process in motion. Customer complaints are also reviewed or re-reviewed during the Management Review process. All of the decisions and actions taken were documented. The decision making was process considered the nature of the complaint and/or non-conformamve. If it was of a serious nature, a CA would probably be issued.
 
Y

yana prus

#3
How do you apply 8.2.2.4. from TS 16949 ?
“ When internal/external nonconformities or customer complains occur the audit frequency shall be appropriately increase”
What do you understand by “appropriately “ How do yo apply it?
Hi Luciano,

Basically, each company has an internal audit plan (usually the annual one). Few companies use exactly the same program for many years (like auditing one element once a year), while the standard requires to adjust the frequency of processes audited according to the nature of non-conformances or customer complaints. So if the company gets a major NC for specific process, this process should be audited more frequently, so if it was once a year, now the internal audit plan should be updated to include audit of this element two - three times a year till the company gets better control over the process.

Hope that helps.

Yana
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
How do you apply 8.2.2.4. from TS 16949 ?
“ When internal/external nonconformities or customer complains occur the audit frequency shall be appropriately increase”
What do you understand by “appropriately “ How do yo apply it?
Do you have specific rules? After every complain are you performing an audit ? Only for reoccurrence?
Thanks
God bless you.
Luciano,

Already you will be auditing your processes according to their status and importance.

It is therefore reasonable to expect to see the processes responsible for the complaints/nonconformities being monitored and audited more frequently.

So, a problematic process that was audited twice a year may be audited 4 times a year until the corrective action is shown to be effective when perhaps the frequency of audit could be reduced to once a year.

8.2.2.4 repeats 8.2.2. :read:

Some would say that 8.2.2.4 clarifies or adds to 8.2.2.

John
 
A

Al Dyer

#5
I guess I would just review my FEMA and Control Plan and adjust accordingly. Up to you to decide frequency and extent, as log as all is documented. Asking the complaining entity what they want could be part of the process.

Al...
 
#6
Hi Luciano,

Basically, each company has an internal audit plan (usually the annual one). Few companies use exactly the same program for many years (like auditing one element once a year), while the standard requires to adjust the frequency of processes audited according to the nature of non-conformances or customer complaints. So if the company gets a major NC for specific process, this process should be audited more frequently, so if it was once a year, now the internal audit plan should be updated to include audit of this element two - three times a year till the company gets better control over the process.
This is often where most companies go off the rails, straight away. Although John Broomfield suggests that audits are planned (already) based on status and importance, I've yet to find anyone who can give a good account of what that means. The default always seems to be based on the standard or something equally banal.

The fact is, taking a once a year audit and doing it twice or three times is not putting any thought behind the scheduling! Although the frequency should increase, it's true, in reality, changing the frequency (alone) isn't sufficient and the 'status' of the process has to be considered again and again.

If you consider the various stages that a complaint goes through, to resolution, might actually be the driver for auditing, wouldn't it be deemed serious enough that a small, focused audit would be done as each step of the 8D - for example - is implemented? We know, too many times there's little to no validation that the planned actions are actually taken, so the audit should give that 'independent' view of what's going on.

Taking an arbitrary approach to auditing from yearly to semi-annually or quarterly without any other considerations is missing the pont, IMHO...
 
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