How do you find your Internal Auditors?

How does people become internal auditors in your company?

  • It comes with the job they were hired for

    Votes: 7 11.9%
  • By hand picking suitable victims... Sorry, I mean candidates

    Votes: 36 61.0%
  • They ask you if they can become auditors.

    Votes: 8 13.6%
  • ...other?

    Votes: 13 22.0%
  • I'm a consultant (or other) but want to see the poll results

    Votes: 6 10.2%

  • Total voters
    59
B

Bill Pflanz

#31
Roxane,

Using one of my favorite phrases: assuming you were run over by a beer truck who would take your place as auditor trainer and what would be the qualifications? I have always felt that external training from a reputable source should be required. I would have thought the registrar would have asked to see written documentation on the qualifications and training required if you ever had to be replaced.

I used an outside consultant to do our initial training on the standards and auditing. He received his training from BSI. Since BSI eventually became our registrar we obviously did not have a problem. Our ISO representative at the plant also was a degreed auditor so we used his additional credentials to train others. Even if you have a CQA from ASQ, I would think formal training in the standards would be needed at minimum and probably lead auditor training.

Bill Pflanz
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#32
Bill Pflanz said:
Using one of my favorite phrases: assuming you were run over by a beer truck who would take your place as auditor trainer and what would be the qualifications? I have always felt that external training from a reputable source should be required. I would have thought the registrar would have asked to see written documentation on the qualifications and training required if you ever had to be replaced.
I have a job description which states the qualifications (and training) I require to do my job and whether or not I meet these requirements. The in-house training is also a controlled training module. If I were hit by a bus and someone needed to take over for me, the job description would be an excellent starting point to ensure that my replacement was up to the task. :)

The way I look at it, while auditing is important and serves the function of "Check" within the PDCA cycle of a Business Management System, we have many checks within our processes that are more involved in a direct manner to ensuring we meet our Customers' and regulatory requirements.

Bill Pflanz said:
I used an outside consultant to do our initial training on the standards and auditing. He received his training from BSI. Since BSI eventually became our registrar we obviously did not have a problem. Our ISO representative at the plant also was a degreed auditor so we used his additional credentials to train others. Even if you have a CQA from ASQ, I would think formal training in the standards would be needed at minimum and probably lead auditor training.
I agree that formal training and experience at auditing are needed to ensure that an Internal Auditor pool is given exposure to the proper knowledge. But it is *not* a requirement of the Standard and it is up to the *organization* to determine what is adequate for them. I am not a CQA, CQE, or any other CQ???....I am simply a new member to the ASQ. I am not a BB or a GB or any other colour of belt.

I have found that credentials do not always equate to better teaching. Yes, knowledge is essential...but so is enthusiasm, passion and a desire to make others want to learn. Communication in the language of the student is vital.
 
#33
The question of competence

Roxane, a lot of this comes from the Ford CSR in TS. Some registrars are attempting to apply it to non-Ford, or even non-TS companies. My answer would be to look at the audit program. If it is working, I must be competent. If it is not, then you may question my competence. I would question the auditor as to where "qualification" is a requirement (if not TS). I don't care if you are qualified; I want to make sure you are competent. Just like driving a car. Any idiot can get a license, but how many competent drivers are there out there?

As many of you know, I am a firm believer that you can use regular process and product monitoring as proof of 6.2.2 c).
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#34
db said:
Roxane, a lot of this comes from the Ford CSR in TS. Some registrars are attempting to apply it to non-Ford, or even non-TS companies. My answer would be to look at the audit program. If it is working, I must be competent. If it is not, then you may question my competence. I would question the auditor as to where "qualification" is a requirement (if not TS). I don't care if you are qualified; I want to make sure you are competent. Just like driving a car. Any idiot can get a license, but how many competent drivers are there out there?

As many of you know, I am a firm believer that you can use regular process and product monitoring as proof of 6.2.2 c).
If it's working, I'd be the last one to question anyone's competence. After all, I was teaching internal auditing in-house before I had formal Lead Auditor training and no one questioned my competency (including the external auditor). But it is nice to know that I can now say I've had the formal classroom time...but the real test of one's knowledge and skills comes from the real world. If a person has excellent feedback from performing audits (i.e., really provides beneficial findings and comments), despite a lack of formal training, I'd rather have that person on my team than a CQA who can't even translate the requirements into common english. :)
 
J

Jeff Frost

#35
In my case our register and 2 prime customers did question my qualification to teach internal auditors within our organization. Looks as if registers may not have standardized on this but then again many registrars never audit customer requirements even thought standard requires you to flow them into the QMS and audit them during internal and external audits.
 

atitheya

Quite Involved in Discussions
#38
During my consulting assignments, I follow the following approach for recommending the Internal Quality Auditors for my clients:

During the course of process mapping and post selection of Task Force Training and during awareness seminars, "victims" :lol: are selected based on their capability, understanding of and interest in the system and then these are recommended for the approval of the Top Management.
 
#40
Does anyone actually use a set of published criteria (they could share) for selecting internal auditor candidates? I mean more than just what ISO 19011 says! Practical criteria.......

After years of training thousands of auditor candidates, I'd be interested to know if anyone uses some sort of 'standards' for their people. I've seen folks come to IA class who clearly have no clue why they're there..........:mg:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Sidney Vianna Why are GOOD Internal Auditors so hard to find? Internal Auditing 35
Claes Gefvenberg WHERE do you find your internal auditors? Internal Auditing 49
A Auditor suggested company find a higher purpose for Internal Audits ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
Gman2 ISO 9001:2000 Internal Audit: Someone PLEASE find me the "Shall" on "Process Audits" Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 37
S How to find technical specification for facilities maintainance ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
M Where can I find examples of PPAP? APQP and PPAP 6
J Where can I find the latest update to Reach and ROHS? REACH and RoHS Conversations 7
G Where to find Proficiency Test provider for photometrics (spectral %R, %T, photo density) General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
C TL-9000 Certifying Body Issue - Auditor failed to find an issue for 10 years TL 9000 Telecommunications Standard and QuEST 16
R How to find out the UMDNS code for medical devices CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 1
M Plating standards - Where to find information AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 2
D Where I can find an ISO 13485:2016 Audit Schedule example? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
Proud Liberal DFMEA / PFMEA linkage - Where in the standards do I find it? FMEA and Control Plans 5
N Where I can find an Excel sample/template for recording Delivery Time and Cost Excel .xls Spreadsheet Templates and Tools 2
R Specification on flare testing extruded aluminum - Where to find Design and Development of Products and Processes 1
A AS9100 Rev:D in Spanish - where can I find a Spanish version? AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 7
I Moving into Clinical Trials and need to find GMP Suppliers 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 1
B Where can I find an English version of Japan's PMD Act? Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 2
S Where to Find DEV and DFE numbers on FDA Website Other Medical Device and Orthopedic Related Topics 3
pammesue Calibration in the UK to ISO 17025..cant find anyone ISO 17025 related Discussions 8
N Where to find a Qualified FDA Supplier Auditor located in China China Medical Device Regulations 7
G Where I could find any project HSE plan templates Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 4
A Where to find a Draft Copy of IATF 16949:2016? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 23
M How to find the number of required data - Correlation with 4 variables Using Minitab Software 2
I Where to find VDA 6.3 Robust Production Process (rpp) PDF file ? VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 1
P Where to find the UMDNS code for CE Mark CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 1
X Where to find UAE medical device registration regulation and guidelines Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 3
I Non-functional Corrective Action - Could Not Find some Documents ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
P Where to find conformance statistics for ISO 15189 Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 1
J Where can I find a product's CE Mark Number? CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 20
L Find Local Authorized Representative (LAR) for medical device EU Medical Device Regulations 5
H How to find a good ISO 9001 Implementation Consultant in Calgary, Canada? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
B Process Capability - Changing Limits to Improve Cpk or find Root Causes? Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 6
R Where to find 21 CFR Part 820 Translated into Czech, Spanish, and German 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 1
A Where can I find the NADCAP Audit Criteria for all the processes? AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 3
L Where to find ISO27000 Annex A? General Auditing Discussions 2
W Where to find the Daimler DBL 6992 10 new (old) standard Customer and Company Specific Requirements 1
V Where I can find an AAR form on Ford Covisint? APQP and PPAP 1
L Find the right Test to fail method according to the standards of LV 124 FMEA and Control Plans 1
G Where to find the ANSI Z1.9 Rosetta Stone Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 9
M How to find a Good Registrar (Certification Body) for ISO TS 16949 certification Registrars and Notified Bodies 3
R How and Where can I find IFU (Instructions For Use) examples? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
Marc Just for fun - How did you find the Elsmar Discussion Forum Forum News and General Information 9
V Where to find Red/White Rust Rating Requirements? APQP and PPAP 4
P VDA 2 - Where to find EMPB (Erstmusterpr?fbericht) bilingual forms VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 2
A How can I find out if a medical device is prescription only? Other US Medical Device Regulations 4
K Where do I find Frequencies and Composite Scale in Minitab? Using Minitab Software 2
V Where do I find Adverse Event Database for Medical Devices? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 1
SteveK Searching Patent Applications - How to find out when a patent is abandoned? Design and Development of Products and Processes 3
W How to find a good D-MAH (Marketing Authorization Holder) for Japan Japan Medical Device Regulations 2
Similar threads


















































Top Bottom