How do you find your Internal Auditors?

How does people become internal auditors in your company?

  • It comes with the job they were hired for

    Votes: 5 9.6%
  • By hand picking suitable victims... Sorry, I mean candidates

    Votes: 32 61.5%
  • They ask you if they can become auditors.

    Votes: 7 13.5%
  • ...other?

    Votes: 11 21.2%
  • I'm a consultant (or other) but want to see the poll results

    Votes: 5 9.6%

  • Total voters
    52
B

Bill Pflanz

#31
Roxane,

Using one of my favorite phrases: assuming you were run over by a beer truck who would take your place as auditor trainer and what would be the qualifications? I have always felt that external training from a reputable source should be required. I would have thought the registrar would have asked to see written documentation on the qualifications and training required if you ever had to be replaced.

I used an outside consultant to do our initial training on the standards and auditing. He received his training from BSI. Since BSI eventually became our registrar we obviously did not have a problem. Our ISO representative at the plant also was a degreed auditor so we used his additional credentials to train others. Even if you have a CQA from ASQ, I would think formal training in the standards would be needed at minimum and probably lead auditor training.

Bill Pflanz
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#32
Bill Pflanz said:
Using one of my favorite phrases: assuming you were run over by a beer truck who would take your place as auditor trainer and what would be the qualifications? I have always felt that external training from a reputable source should be required. I would have thought the registrar would have asked to see written documentation on the qualifications and training required if you ever had to be replaced.
I have a job description which states the qualifications (and training) I require to do my job and whether or not I meet these requirements. The in-house training is also a controlled training module. If I were hit by a bus and someone needed to take over for me, the job description would be an excellent starting point to ensure that my replacement was up to the task. :)

The way I look at it, while auditing is important and serves the function of "Check" within the PDCA cycle of a Business Management System, we have many checks within our processes that are more involved in a direct manner to ensuring we meet our Customers' and regulatory requirements.

Bill Pflanz said:
I used an outside consultant to do our initial training on the standards and auditing. He received his training from BSI. Since BSI eventually became our registrar we obviously did not have a problem. Our ISO representative at the plant also was a degreed auditor so we used his additional credentials to train others. Even if you have a CQA from ASQ, I would think formal training in the standards would be needed at minimum and probably lead auditor training.
I agree that formal training and experience at auditing are needed to ensure that an Internal Auditor pool is given exposure to the proper knowledge. But it is *not* a requirement of the Standard and it is up to the *organization* to determine what is adequate for them. I am not a CQA, CQE, or any other CQ???....I am simply a new member to the ASQ. I am not a BB or a GB or any other colour of belt.

I have found that credentials do not always equate to better teaching. Yes, knowledge is essential...but so is enthusiasm, passion and a desire to make others want to learn. Communication in the language of the student is vital.
 
#33
The question of competence

Roxane, a lot of this comes from the Ford CSR in TS. Some registrars are attempting to apply it to non-Ford, or even non-TS companies. My answer would be to look at the audit program. If it is working, I must be competent. If it is not, then you may question my competence. I would question the auditor as to where "qualification" is a requirement (if not TS). I don't care if you are qualified; I want to make sure you are competent. Just like driving a car. Any idiot can get a license, but how many competent drivers are there out there?

As many of you know, I am a firm believer that you can use regular process and product monitoring as proof of 6.2.2 c).
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#34
db said:
Roxane, a lot of this comes from the Ford CSR in TS. Some registrars are attempting to apply it to non-Ford, or even non-TS companies. My answer would be to look at the audit program. If it is working, I must be competent. If it is not, then you may question my competence. I would question the auditor as to where "qualification" is a requirement (if not TS). I don't care if you are qualified; I want to make sure you are competent. Just like driving a car. Any idiot can get a license, but how many competent drivers are there out there?

As many of you know, I am a firm believer that you can use regular process and product monitoring as proof of 6.2.2 c).
If it's working, I'd be the last one to question anyone's competence. After all, I was teaching internal auditing in-house before I had formal Lead Auditor training and no one questioned my competency (including the external auditor). But it is nice to know that I can now say I've had the formal classroom time...but the real test of one's knowledge and skills comes from the real world. If a person has excellent feedback from performing audits (i.e., really provides beneficial findings and comments), despite a lack of formal training, I'd rather have that person on my team than a CQA who can't even translate the requirements into common english. :)
 
J

Jeff Frost

#35
In my case our register and 2 prime customers did question my qualification to teach internal auditors within our organization. Looks as if registers may not have standardized on this but then again many registrars never audit customer requirements even thought standard requires you to flow them into the QMS and audit them during internal and external audits.
 

atitheya

Involved In Discussions
#38
During my consulting assignments, I follow the following approach for recommending the Internal Quality Auditors for my clients:

During the course of process mapping and post selection of Task Force Training and during awareness seminars, "victims" :lol: are selected based on their capability, understanding of and interest in the system and then these are recommended for the approval of the Top Management.
 
#40
Does anyone actually use a set of published criteria (they could share) for selecting internal auditor candidates? I mean more than just what ISO 19011 says! Practical criteria.......

After years of training thousands of auditor candidates, I'd be interested to know if anyone uses some sort of 'standards' for their people. I've seen folks come to IA class who clearly have no clue why they're there..........:mg:
 

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