P
peacewong
During workshop kaizen, we have to understand 3G, it is important. How do you understand 3G?
How do you know 3G (Gemba, Gembutsu, Genjitsu) in workshop kaizen?
W
wmarhel
Re: How do you know 3G (Genba, Genbutsu, Genjitsu) in workshop kaizen?
Note spelling corrections, the "n" should be a "m".
Gemba - "The actual place". This is where work takes place and value is created for the customers. Note that work and value are not always aligned.
Gembutsu - "The thing". This could be a piece of equipment, a product, etc. It is the target of one's focus for improvement.
Genjitsu - "The facts". What is happening in the area of the area of kaizen, a workcell, etc.
One very key aspect related to these three terms is "genchi gembutsu" or "Go Observe". This means that one would go observe an area of opportunity or where a problem might be occurring. By doing this, we gain first-hand and not anecdotal or second hand information that might have been filtered for us.
Wayne
Note spelling corrections, the "n" should be a "m".
Gemba - "The actual place". This is where work takes place and value is created for the customers. Note that work and value are not always aligned.
Gembutsu - "The thing". This could be a piece of equipment, a product, etc. It is the target of one's focus for improvement.
Genjitsu - "The facts". What is happening in the area of the area of kaizen, a workcell, etc.
One very key aspect related to these three terms is "genchi gembutsu" or "Go Observe". This means that one would go observe an area of opportunity or where a problem might be occurring. By doing this, we gain first-hand and not anecdotal or second hand information that might have been filtered for us.
Wayne
Q
qualitymanager
Re: How do you know 3G (Genba, Genbutsu, Genjitsu) in workshop kaizen?
Well....
In general, the Japanese character (in hiragana) can be translated as either "m" or "n", depending on the sound within the word. I suspect the kanji for the first 2 syllables in all 3 words are the same, but the last is translated with an "n" ("Genjitsu").
Also, in my readings of English translations from Japanese, different authors use different spellings, and some older translations (pre-1980s, I think) are different from the current transliterations.
That being said, my Professor (Suichi Yoshida) uses "Gemba".
His definitions are:
Well....
In general, the Japanese character (in hiragana) can be translated as either "m" or "n", depending on the sound within the word. I suspect the kanji for the first 2 syllables in all 3 words are the same, but the last is translated with an "n" ("Genjitsu").
Also, in my readings of English translations from Japanese, different authors use different spellings, and some older translations (pre-1980s, I think) are different from the current transliterations.
That being said, my Professor (Suichi Yoshida) uses "Gemba".
His definitions are:
W
wmarhel
Re: How do you know 3G (Genba, Genbutsu, Genjitsu) in workshop kaizen?
The use of the "m" is more prevalent, hence my suggestion for the spelling. Otherwise you might end up with readers wondering what the difference is between the words spelled with an "n" and an "m".
Technically, in Hiragana though, the "n" would be correct since it is the only consonant in Hiragana that can stand alone. In Hiragana the letter "m" would need to be followed by a vowel: Ma, Mu, Mi, Me, Mo. The letter "n" could also be followed by vowels in a similar sequence. These two letters typically aren't interchanged as much as "k" and "g", such as in kawa and gawa which both mean river (Kanji for both translations = 河 ).
Gemba or Genba have a more literal translation of "actual spot" and was originally adapted from law enforcement's "scene of the crime" which was the location where waste was occurring (Kanji = 現場).
I think it just helps if there is consistency (like standardized work) to enable the information to flow in a much more understandable manner.
Good points though qualitymanager.
Wayne
The use of the "m" is more prevalent, hence my suggestion for the spelling. Otherwise you might end up with readers wondering what the difference is between the words spelled with an "n" and an "m".
Technically, in Hiragana though, the "n" would be correct since it is the only consonant in Hiragana that can stand alone. In Hiragana the letter "m" would need to be followed by a vowel: Ma, Mu, Mi, Me, Mo. The letter "n" could also be followed by vowels in a similar sequence. These two letters typically aren't interchanged as much as "k" and "g", such as in kawa and gawa which both mean river (Kanji for both translations = 河 ).
Gemba or Genba have a more literal translation of "actual spot" and was originally adapted from law enforcement's "scene of the crime" which was the location where waste was occurring (Kanji = 現場).
I think it just helps if there is consistency (like standardized work) to enable the information to flow in a much more understandable manner.
Good points though qualitymanager.
Wayne
Q
qualitymanager
Re: How do you know 3G (Genba, Genbutsu, Genjitsu) in workshop kaizen?
Fun fun fun!!!!
By using kanji, I can tell u r way ahead of me in the written Japanese language
For the benefit of other readers, I suggest looking at the use of the Japanese syllable "n/m":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ん
or, if the character won't display in the link above, go look at the last consonant in the table:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology
And thanks for the origin of the usage of the term "gemba" (we can agree on the "m"
)
Fun fun fun!!!!
By using kanji, I can tell u r way ahead of me in the written Japanese language
For the benefit of other readers, I suggest looking at the use of the Japanese syllable "n/m":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ん
or, if the character won't display in the link above, go look at the last consonant in the table:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology
And thanks for the origin of the usage of the term "gemba" (we can agree on the "m"
)
Wes Bucey
Prophet of Profit
FWIW:I agree (when using "standard" terms) it is important to be as consistent as possible in the spelling, especially here in the Cove where so many folks come to us the first time as a result of a search. Moderators spend much moderator time adjusting spelling or rephrasing in thread titles to aid in searches.
That said, I generally disapprove of using words foreign to the general work force when conducting training or writing work instructions because it distracts from the general learning experience by creating a new vocabulary to remember and because it creates a sense of exclusion, by saying to the uninitiated: "We have secret words and you are not part of the group until you learn the secret passwords."
The goal, of course, should be "inclusion" where all players have an easy time in learning to be part of the group or team.
That said, I generally disapprove of using words foreign to the general work force when conducting training or writing work instructions because it distracts from the general learning experience by creating a new vocabulary to remember and because it creates a sense of exclusion, by saying to the uninitiated: "We have secret words and you are not part of the group until you learn the secret passwords."
The goal, of course, should be "inclusion" where all players have an easy time in learning to be part of the group or team.
I coudn't agree more. we have been very meticulous in using plain english (our native language) words to describe lean and other concepts. For example we just say customer demand rate instead of 'takt' and 'rapid improvement project' instead of kaizen blitz (which as a world war II buff just makes my head buzz) and we say continuous improvement - every day in every way - instead of Kaizen.
Besides eliminating the 'special staus' that these words imply we get more effective understanding of what to do as opposed to what to say. For example I am constantly struggling with new hires or recruits during interviews with the real definition of 'takt' time. It's not cycle time or lead time. but for those who have been taught about 'customer demand rate' there is no confusion. Translating from your native language to a foreign language and then necessarrily back to your native language is anti-lean. it's non value add and it adds complexity which only increases the mistake rate!
This doesn't just apply to lean terms by the way; we also have a campaign to eliminate jargon (not just three letter acronyms). We have far too many people who talk in SAP speak. They use the SAP transaction code instead of describign the transaction - drives the rest of us crazy because we dont' have enough fingers to wear all of the secret decoder rings we need.
P
peacewong
It means in Chinese: 现场，现实，现物. It's nothing but a concept and discipline to process the problem in the workshop.
S
ssbbja
In my world it is as simple as it sounds and that works good for me as a mindset when solving problems.
Get to where it actually happens to see for yourself what is actually happening in order to get the unfiltered facts.
Get to where it actually happens to see for yourself what is actually happening in order to get the unfiltered facts.
B
buckwolf
Unless I am conducting a training session for a very specialized group, I don’t often use the foreign terms. I have found when giving general training using these terms can often alienate the audience and cloud over the main points of the session. By using terms like, “the place”, “the thing”, and “the facts”, they can much more easily identify their role in the process. Most important in all of this IMHO is “Go and see”.
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