How do you manage your Inspection Drawings?

LesPiles

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hello Dear Covers!

We are a small business and drawings of mechanical plans we do are mainly manufacturing drawings - i.e. for the parts to be produced by our subcontractors - which are metal sheet companies.

These parts are then received by Quality Inspector at receiving. At this stage, until fairly recently, we had experienced employees (we were processing in the past metal fabrication for our products) and we relied on those for inspection (which dimensions to check, etc.).

However, things being what they are, the world is now changing and we now have a new inspector, other inspectors having left for retirement. We are facing a rather severe turbulence on the inspection. Add to this that we now face for the first time the requirements of the automotive sector for a contract, which require the application of a PPAP (with dimensional measurements).

For identification of significant dimensional measurements, it is relatively under control. I formed a team composed of a mechanical designer and a quality technician. To these may be added other internal resources as needed: a quality inspector, a production operator, and a product engineer. We obviously agreed that these measures would be identified by balloons on the drawing.

Regarding management of drawings for inspection, it is a little less defined. Several questions arise...

Questions:

  • How do you manage bubble drawings?

  • Do you have two sets of drawings for a particular part: one for manufacturing and another one for inspection?

  • If so, it's like multiplying documents by two ... This means double storage space, double documents when an ECR has an impact ...

  • If you do not use a separate drawing for inspection (i.e. if your bubble drawings are sent to the supplier), aren’t you afraid that your supplier pays attention only to these measures (bubbles)?
To sum up, tell me more about inspection drawings …

Thank you in advance to those who will help me!

LesPiles
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Can't answer all of this , as we are not TS, although some products get a full PPAP anyway. It is not beneficial to produce multiple drawings when it can be avoided. Quality has access to all the drawings, so we tend to print what is useful to us, (DXF's, details) along with the "full" drawing. We conduct a FPI on the drawing, stamp it, and scan it into the file, then throw out the 'extra' drawing. As for suppliers, most don't know what a bubble dimension means, so it makes little difference, but if the dimension is truly critical, it should not be held at the expense of other 'less critical' dimensions. When we supply a drawing to a vendor, I come down hard (at first) on the early product, if I do that, subsequent product holds very well. If I let them slide , even a tiny bit, I can expect much worse material in the pipeline.
 
#3
OK here goes.
In short we do not write on drawings.
We keep electronic copies on the server and hard copies issued to the inspection records. A register is kept of these document issues.
The inspection records then describe the records to be made when approving parts made at each manufacturing operation.

If drawings are issued to production they are issued as uncontrolled copies specific to a single works order and destroyed when the order has been completed.

Where PPAP is required by the customer a drawing will be marked up with numbered bubbles and scanned into the Part Submission folder set up for that PPAP. The numbered bubbles are referenced on the dimensional report in the PPAP.
This is a customer requirement for our PPAP's.
The "bubble" copy of the drawing is then destroyed.
 

Crimpshrine13

Involved In Discussions
#4
When we do the PPAP, I create a balooned drawing from the original drawing (customer drawing since we're not design responsible) by placing the numbering on each dimension, but this is used only for PPAP, and is not a controlled copy. Once I use it on PPAP, it stays with the PPAP and no where else.

But, if you have certain dimensions that your inspectors must check at receiving inspection on a regular basis, I would assume you want to create and keep drawing for the inspection process, which is separate from manufacturing process drawing.

In our case, we have manufacturing process drawing for each manufacturing processes (we have two processes, so two separate drawings), and once we receive plated parts, we do the receiving inspection (only sampling) with gages and X-ray fluorescent, but all parts go into machine inspection and ultimately the machines are set to OEM specification, so we don't necessarily have inspection drawing.

But, in your case, I would assume that you should to have drawings for each processes including for inspection, but that does not have to be the balooned drawing attached to the PPAP unless your inspectors are checking all the dimensions on the drawing like when you do the PPAP. In other words, if the inspectors are checking every dimension on the drawing, maybe you could utilize the same balooned drawing?
 
R

rodentfish

#5
We take our customers drawing and balloon the entire thing, we use this for PPAP and for 1st piece inspection. We then take the ballooned drawing and remove any of the balloons to the dimensions that were not going to have our operators inspect. We further break it down by color coding the remaining ballooned dimensions by hourly inspection, daily inspection and 100% inspection.

Red Balloon = Hourly Inspection
Blue Balloon = Once daily and after any tooling change.
Green Balloon = 100% Each Part
 
V

Valeri

#6
Rodentfish, I love your "kissed" process - sweet & simple.

I'm wondering what issues you would have using the "colored bubble" drawing for PPAP; the fmea and CP will show the inspection points anyway and it would provide a 2nd review of the process.
 
R

rodentfish

#7
Hi Valeri
When I submit my drawings with a PPAP (and 1st pcs), the entire ballooned drawing is the same color. I don't break it down into the various inspection requirement colors until I send it to the floor (hope that answers your question).

I also forgot to mention that when I receive a print that is all GD&T, I’ll create a separate process print for my operators to inspect against (unless it’s a fixture inspection).
 

auditorsos

Starting to get Involved
#8
OK here goes.
In short we do not write on drawings.
We keep electronic copies on the server and hard copies issued to the inspection records. A register is kept of these document issues.
The inspection records then describe the records to be made when approving parts made at each manufacturing operation.

If drawings are issued to production they are issued as uncontrolled copies specific to a single works order and destroyed when the order has been completed.

Where PPAP is required by the customer a drawing will be marked up with numbered bubbles and scanned into the Part Submission folder set up for that PPAP. The numbered bubbles are referenced on the dimensional report in the PPAP.
This is a customer requirement for our PPAP's.
The "bubble" copy of the drawing is then destroyed.
Interesting msandilands as we are trying to streamline our 'production packs' at present. What we have is:
- The Engineering Design Pack
- Master Production Pack which will contain ALL documentation relevant to the production process
- The area production pack(s) - This could be one for the specific area with all necessary general assemblies and mechanical parts, and one pack for the machine shop with all mechanical parts.

Currently a work order / job sheet is raised. The machine shop receive the order and go to the 'controlled' production pack, grab the drawing and manufacture the part. The drawing stays with the part through to inspection (within the department) and the work order and part will then move through to the next stage of production assembly.
The machine shop drawing will 'eventually' get filed away.

However, we are finding that the machine shop will pile up their copies of drawings and maybe once a week file them, but they have an issue remembering where they came from, they cannot remember all of the parts (OK, some that are made more frequently they'll know), so they come to me (the Librarian) asking where the drawing is from which folder, as it is not clear from the drawing which model it refers (not always, as we have many common parts too).

I have discussed this with the QM who is also the CEO of the company, and suggested that since we have a more streamlined Work Order Management System (WOMS for short), why can't we do away with the production pack in the machine shop and print out a 'for one time use only' drawing that accompanies the work order. He is less than keen on this idea However, a couple of guys in the MS are from ex-military manufacturing places and this is how it works, and it works effectively.

The QM has requested me to list the Pros and Cons on this and he may consider this.

As a side note all of our documentation is retained on a terastation server which everyone has access to of which I maintain, so the most up to date documentation should be where it should.

Do other manufacturing companies issue drawings with Work Order / Job sheets?

Thanks in advance.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#9
Yes. We attach the drawing to the work order. Drawing can be printed from computer network. We actually record our set up inspection results on the print. When complete the work order/print is filed away in a bankers box if we ever need to look at it. Pulling, filing, and fe-filing is a major time suck, so eliminate it if possible.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#10
Questions:

  • How do you manage bubble drawings?

  • Do you have two sets of drawings for a particular part: one for manufacturing and another one for inspection?

  • If so, it's like multiplying documents by two ... This means double storage space, double documents when an ECR has an impact ...

  • If you do not use a separate drawing for inspection (i.e. if your bubble drawings are sent to the supplier), aren’t you afraid that your supplier pays attention only to these measures (bubbles)?
LesPiles
There have been many good answers thus far.

How do you manage bubble drawings?
I make the bubble drawing, I use scan it, use it, and send it to the customer along with the FAIR - AS9102 format.

That's our shop, but I could see using a dimensional inspection sheet that simple defines the bubbles, tolerances, and lists results instead. I could see NOT sending it to the customer.

Do you have two sets of drawings for a particular part: one for manufacturing and another one for inspection?
If I can put the inspection dimensions on the traveler, I prefer that. If they are easy to find on the print, then, no, one print only. If the part is complex, I go to the bubble drawing and the form 3 of the AS9102 (the dimensional results).

If so, it's like multiplying documents by two ... This means double storage space, double documents when an ECR has an impact ...
I figure there is a new bubble drawing and new FAIR each time there is a rev change. That is important to ensure product quality. My IT background says scan stuff (AS YOU GET IT!!!!), get rid of paper copies.

IMHO - If you don't scan as you get it, no one goes back and does it.

If you do not use a separate drawing for inspection (i.e. if your bubble drawings are sent to the supplier), aren’t you afraid that your supplier pays attention only to these measures (bubbles)?

I answer your question with questions:
If you do not use a separate drawing for inspection, how do you inspect?
How do you determine what needs to be inspected if not all?
How do you ensure it is consistently done per procedure?

Cheers!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
J Software or template to manage first piece, in process and final inspection reports Software Quality Assurance 2
Marco Bernardi Finding a flat or not modeling distribution: how to manage it? Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 24
A How to manage the QMS system and SOP during the transition from MDD to MDR EU Medical Device Regulations 4
S Seeking efficient method to manage install base data Manufacturing and Related Processes 0
J Microsoft Teams to manage Internal Audit System? Internal Auditing 3
L How to manage a Metrology Department or Calibration Laboratory General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
N Who shall manage PPAP process? APQP and PPAP 4
B How do you manage your project? Data Conversion and Digitization Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 9
Q Is ISO 9001 fully enough to manage a business? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 19
D Any Elsmar members using Traqpath to manage CAPA? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 2
S Plant within a Plant - Does anyone currently manage their facility this way? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
J IMDS: How to manage same Raw Material from Two Suppliers? RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 2
Q Efficient way to manage different country Medical Device Regulations Other US Medical Device Regulations 10
Q How to manage with customer % failed product ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
Q Conflict Management - Systemic way to manage conflicts within Teams Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 6
S How to track and manage all uncertainty budgets - Database? Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 3
J Anyone here use Paradigm Sofware to manage compliance with ISO standards Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 3
J How can I manage Occurence Rates in FMEA efficiently when I have many processes? FMEA and Control Plans 9
T Best place in QMS to manage Quality Objectives ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
L How to manage prolongation of Calibration Period on Equipment General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
drgnrider Definition of "Manage" as used in ISO 14001 related Documents ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
G How to manage/control critical items and key characteristics? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
B The best way to manage changes to the documentation of PCB files & BOM Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 8
M Looking for software to manage ISO 9001:2008 system Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 4
D Ticketing System to Manage Five Service Lines for proposed QMS ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
K Records Control - How do you Manage tons of Paper Records? Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 10
F How to manage Intermediary Sales Agents ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
Q What are the Product Realisation processes that manage Finances? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
R Suggestions for a practical way to manage Contract Review Contract Review Process 5
G How to manage a problem Overseas Tooling Supplier Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 7
T How to manage Suppliers in accordance with ISO 13485 Requirements Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 5
T Action plan: How to manage actions, preventive actions and opportunities of improv? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
M How to Manage Employees (Operators) - Training for specific Jobs Manufacturing and Related Processes 4
M How do you manage Customer Specific Requirements (CSRs)? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
V How do you manage the Review Comments post to Approval of a Document Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 3
C I asked myself a question 'What does a Management System Manage?' ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 22
G How do OEM's manage Special Customer Requirements from its End Customers? Customer and Company Specific Requirements 1
Sidney Vianna OASIS Modification To Manage Auditor Type (AEA/AA) For Each Authentication AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
W How to manage drugs during a manufacturing process? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
E Software that will manage my APQP documents Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 9
S How to better manage files on a personal computer? After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 8
P How to manage loose Pin Gages without Identification on the machining floor Calibration Frequency (Interval) 19
Marc What software (if any) do you use to manage your quality system? Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 57
Chennaiite How to manage Variation among Auditors? General Auditing Discussions 8
A Competency Records Management - How do you manage your training/competency records? Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
K How to Manage / Drive your Internal Supplier Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 7
S How to manage (control) a copy of ISO 9001:2008 Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 20
E Quality Software - Who uses software to manage your Quality System? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
M Experience with IPC 1752 compliance? Manage and report ROHS information RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 4
D Procedure to Manage, Repair and Modify Tooling needed Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom