How does your organization react to customer audits?

C

chaosweary

#11
Customer audits can be a challenge. To me customer audits tend to increase the cost of a product by adding additional requirements the customer has not conveyed up front in the contractural agreement as well as costs that were not figured into the product's intended gross margin. Quality and customer satisfaction is important, but then again you can't be giving your product away. I take my belts on the chin when the findings are justified, however, findings from customer audits that are outrageous I work out with the customer's buyers, not their supplier quality engineers. Just tell the buyer that you may need to amend the contract and increase the price in order to have the resources to close out the SQE's corrective action... and let them battle it out on their own turf.

:notme:
 
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psyched1

Involved In Discussions
#12
In pharmaceutical and clinical manufacturing customer audits are more frequent. We are audited montly by various customers but it has helped us to be prepared. We have a standard script we follow.

Each auditor is treated as an honored guest and recieves a notebook based on the items they intend to audit from the audit schedule which they provide. It includes the Quality Manual, process maps, org chart, contact info, GMP required docs and specific procedures or work instructions based on their audit plan.

On audit day we provide an organized and efficient processes which usually leaves plenty of time for our auditors to cover everything on their schedule and maybe take in the Arch downtown (St Louis). It is interesting that auditors are suprised at our effciency since we compile all required records and documents in advance within the conference room. What we dont have is usually on my lap top.

During our initial tour we let the operators explain their processes and take a hands off approach. Our operators take a lot of pride in their work and it usually comes through in the confidence about what they are doing and how they follow their procedures. Most of them have been involved in the process of creating their own work instructions.

I guess as long as you do what you say you do you shouldn't have a problem with an audit at any given time.
 

RCW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
I am strongly of the mind that customers should be welcomed into my facility to audit our processes as part of our continual improvement plan.
I'm not frightened, I see no need to "cram" as if for an exam, and I welcome any suggestions that they may have.

Unfortunately, in more than one place I've worked, customer audits are dreaded. They're dreaded like final exams are dreaded in school. Senior management insists on meeting after meeting to make sure our butts are covered.

But few of these are "pass/fail" audits. Business doesn't hinge on them, they are existing customers, they are no based on an inordinate amount of complaints. It's the customer following up on his supplier surveillance process.
I have given the lecture to employees here several times that there are two different ways to address audits. One is like a doctor's visit (yeah, I know, those are fun too). The doctor may say "Hey, your blood pressure went down a bit but you still need to lose a few more pounds." There are positives to an audit and there are things that can be improved on.

The other view is the proverbial "pass/fail" audit, as was mentioned. This is just like taking a test in school. You either pass or fail. There is no middle ground. There is also little or nothing gained from this.

I used to worry about customer and registration audits but I've learned to treat them as learning experiences. It always fun to pick somebody elses brain and gather new ideas that could be useful.


I suppose, in my current position, once I have my internal audit process going most of this fear will go away. I hope.
I've noticed within my own company auditees address internal audits differently from customer audits. The "vibe" I get from internals are "Here's my answer. I gotta get back to work. Go away." Where after the customer audit is completed, the first question I get asked is "Did we pass??" :mg:
 
R

RosieA

#14
Psyched, it sounds like you're in a nice stable place. The rest of us are jealous!

Here's a scenario I went through a couple years ago. I think this represents the worst of the worst in terms of vendor relationships:

My company made a widely available product. We did it at much higher volumes than most places and in two countries besides the US for cost purposes. A well known OEM had 80+ vendors for this commodity and (wisely) decided that 80+ vendors was unmanageable. They decided to winnow it down to 6 key suppliers who they would partner with and we made the cut.

To get there, we went through every hoop imaginable, including a three day, three person audit repeated in two countries that was incredibly painful. (the worst in my long career) We got our foreign plants ISO 14001 certified and SA8000. We re-wrote specs and re-did processes. We put our people through Six Sigma training.

Then, when it came time to negotiate the annual contract, Purchasing did an on-line auction with (you know what's coming, don't you?) all 80+ original suppliers. Clearly, despite all the hype, this was a customer that was buying on price, not on quality. And we felt like we'd wasted a year and 10s of thousands of dollars.
 
C

chaosweary

#15
Rosie I have felt that pain, those same battle scars have shaped my attitude as you could tell by my earlier post. I think it has a lot to do with the market competition. Buy hey you have a much better company for all the hard work :)
 
J

Joe Cruse

#16
We don't mind them too much, though they are pretty rare these days in our business (customers are already lean and don't have time to send people all over creation to do audits, so they use "self-assessments"). Most of the time, they are usually visits with a request for a copy of the ISO reg. I've been through several full QMS audits though, and while time consuming, it was no worse than a surveillance audit.

We LIKE to see the customers come in, even for a full blown QMS audit, because we've had to separate ourselves from the rest of the world-wide industry by staying away from most of the commodity stuff and concentrating on specialty products, quality, and service. We feel that if the customer would come only in and check us out for themselves, we would have a better chance of getting/holding the business, even at a higher price.

If we ran into a customer that tried to put unreasonable demands on us with an audit (do CA's contrary to our own procedures, audit to a different standard, etc), we'd have to look at the demands made versus our contractual obligations with the customer (i.e. where the customer's procedures for suppliers are spelled out in the contract/PO). If there was nothing in our contract that made us agree to follow the customer's wishes here, the Boss would have to weigh the cost of losing the business vs. telling them "No thanks" on following their wishes. Several years ago, VW came in and did a QMS audit. We were ISO 9002:1994 and they were going to audit to TS. We told them up front that they could audit us to TS, but any NC's not under 9002 would not necessarily be addressed. They were fine with that, and the audit went well.

All that being said, if I had a customer in here every week, it would get to be a real pain in the :censor: ! :bonk: :lmao:
 

psyched1

Involved In Discussions
#17
Psyched, it sounds like you're in a nice stable place. The rest of us are jealous!
I have two huge things going for me. Foremost I have a management group that are perfectionists in what they do and that translates to every member of the team from management to the janitor.

Second I have a 400lb gorilla called the FDA which is much stronger than some ISO auditor. If you fail an ISO audit you get your hand slaped (which is extermely rare since your auditor works for you) and you get 30 days to correct errors before they pull your cert. Should you fail an FDA audit people will be going to jail or your company will be extensively fined.:mg:

But most of all being prepared is the key. When I first arrived here we were averaging 8 findings an audit:yuk: Thats a lot when you have two to three audits a month by customers. In addition when we were taken over last year the Coporate quality guru audited us after two months on the job and said we passed only 24 of 56 points. We focused on GMP's dumped our ISO cert and now pass audits through maticulous preperation. Our shop is always clean even if I have to get on a broom to ensure it (that really irks the production guys :notme: ).

Somebody mentioned something about first impressions and they are absolutely correct. When I audit I always arrive early and drive around the plant. If I see large amounts of scrap in the yard or disorganization I know in advance I'll be in for a long day.

One thing I always fail to understand is filth in CNC departments. Having run CNC equipment while in college for Dana Corp I learned an appreciation for clean organized work areas. I stress this when I have worked in automotive. It makes a big difference when your customer/auditor visits competitors who do not take pride in their work then arrive at your facility and its clean and organized. Not to mention how it helps the bottom line when operators are not spending time (talking) looking for fixtures and tooling.
 
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