How long can one auditor audit a facility? Is there a limit, number of years?

  • Thread starter Casey Cochran - 2009
  • Start date
T

tarheels4 - 2007

#11
QualityPhD said:
As a general statement, during the first audit of any company please plan to expect at least 30-40 findings. If I document half of that number, you have done a great job in maintaining/implementing a qms..."
I would think that if you found that many during your first visit, it may also be your last visit. And the QMS manager may be out the door with you.
 
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Q

QualityPhD

#12
Findings.. are not all nonconformances. I place very little emphasis on what I consider to be "insignificant" issues, like doc control on forms, etc. (unless the issue pertains to engineering or configuration management). I audit a process approach, usu. from the end of the process working forward -- tends to expose more inconsistencies and show where process linkages have broken, BPI on eliminating bottlenecks in the system to eliminate waste, redundancy and make a + impact on profit margin, reduction/elimination of unintended scrap in manufacturing... blah blah blah...

Consider this.... your previous auditor writes findings like "consider developing a process-based audit checklist", "management review was not held according to the schedule described in QP5.xxx". How is that value-added auditing?

Maybe communicating findings that once corrected will improve the process or eliminate waste (thus increase the profit margin) make more sense... e.g. traceability on raw material is not effective in the ABC manufacturing cell... "x amount of Raw material" (ID Titanium, stainless, etc. ) issued to the machining area is not accounted for within the production process. Shop traveler #12345 indicates x amount was allocated to the job, finished goods show "y amount", set up scrap accounts for "z amount". No return of raw material can be traced back into stores.... RCA of this finding showed that not only was this an issue at this particular manufacturing cell, but overall throughout the facility this was happening... where did the material from teh machining drops go? Home with several employees -- not back into stores or scrap (which is then re-sold to a recycler) -- to be collected and then recycled for their own profit, not the company's. Total estimated cost of this nonconformance left uncorrected.... about $25,000 to this specific company...

Please keep in mind that dotting "i's and crossing t's" is important in many areas... like manufacturing components that are used in the aerospace industry (rather hard to stop and refuel a DC-10 midair when the component failure is noted)... My background is in aerospace engineering, my graduate education is focused on organizational development and business process improvement... I work as a consultant and auditor, not just performing the required SAs or RAs, but providing by experience to organizations that need to improve the health of their business in order to keep their doors open. I have been known to do "a little bit more than write qms docs. One favorite project, albeit not an easy one, was to assist a major US air carrier in determining the cause of a significant rise in ramp accidents that resulted in the unfortunate deaths of 3 employees in unrelated incidents. Results since the original completion of the project - reduction in FAA reportable incidents by 50% and ZERO additional fatalities and ZERO repeatable incidents...

Maybe 20-30 findings isn't so bad afterall... as a point worth noting, every organization that I have audited has requested that I return for subsequent audits... I am not the "typical auditor". I like what I do, I do it well, and previous and current clients have responded positively to the experience.
 
Q

QualityPhD

#13
tarheels4 said:
I would think that if you found that many during your first visit, it may also be your last visit. And the QMS manager may be out the door with you.
Knowing where to look is the key ;) Being too close to the process is not always a good thing!
 
T

tarheels4 - 2007

#14
QualityPhD said:
Knowing where to look is the key ;) Being too close to the process is not always a good thing!
Yes you are probably right. Might get burned.
:topic:
If I may ask Anne, how is the PJR accreditation process going? And since you are clearly an excellent auditor, are you a part of the process? I mean being witnessed by IAOB on behalf of PJR? I would think that they would beg you to support them.
 
Q

QualityPhD

#15
Now tarheels... you KNOW that I cannot comment on the status of any company's accrediation process.... The IOAB tends to frown upon any and all discussion of their decisions prior to making their decision. So, how's no comment for an answer? My suggestion would be to call the IOAB auditor directly and ask... then give me a call and tell me what he said, so I know too.

Carefully checking my calendar to see if I have any witness audits scheduled.....
 
T

tarheels4 - 2007

#16
QualityPhD said:
Now tarheels... you KNOW that I cannot comment on the status of any company's accrediation process.... The IOAB tends to frown upon any and all discussion of their decisions prior to making their decision. So, how's no comment for an answer? My suggestion would be to call the IOAB auditor directly and ask... then give me a call and tell me what he said, so I know too.

Carefully checking my calendar to see if I have any witness audits scheduled.....
Very good answer. I am certainly impressed with your skills. :eek:
 
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