How many majors is one company allowed ? IATF16949

[jmsaunders21]

Hello all, I am working as a QMS Coordinator at a new TIER one supplier to GM. They want to get certified to IATF at the end of 2022. There is ALOT of issues and I mean tons. Many missing requirements and on top of all that... top management could care less and thinks its stupid to get certified, a lot of them come from OEMs so i guess they don't have experience implementing a QMS to a standard. So basically my next idea is to bring to them the repercussions of not implementing the clauses. When the auditors come out for our stage 2, how many majors are we allowed to get ? What will happen if we are missing many of the clauses ? I want to explain to them that if we don't do this it will be a waste of the companies money and time. Anyone have experience at a company that was not willing to implement the standard and then wanted to get audited anyway? PLEASE HELP !!!!!!!

 

[Jim Wynne]

What were the results of your Stage 1 audit?

 

[Sidney Vianna]

PLEASE HELP !!!!!!!

CB's used to offer preliminary assessments as "mock audits" so the organization had an idea how close/far they were from being "certifiable". Not sure if the IATF has prohibitions on these gap analysis type of audits these days, but if not, you could hire the CB to perform this assessment and, hopefully open the eyes of the site leaders with a reality check; just be aware that, and I am sure you are already, all the identified gaps to be closed could end up on your plate....

The more concerning bit of your situation is not compliance with a standard, but the apparent management lack of compatibility with modern quality management. That is impossible to fix.

How is your "quality performance" data from the customer's perspective?

 

[Michael_M]

I completely agree with Sidney above. If top management is not on board you will be in a constant 'war' to get things in compliance, and I believe you cannot win this 'war'. In my experience, if you can get one or two to understand the requirements and the need for the requirements, it will be easier for the others to get on-board.

As for your original question. During an audit (bad management--new owners), we had 2 major (AS9100) and the auditor spent about 1 hour on the phone with his CB deciding if we should be certified or not.

(from memory): It was decided that we could move forward but a re-assessment audit was required scheduled out about 3 months (1 or 2 additional days, I don't remember). The Corrective Action for the 2x major's had to VERY robust, I remember him rejecting or asking for additional clarity several times.

 

[jmsaunders21]

What were the results of your Stage 1 audit?

Hi Jim. We haven't went through stage 1 yet , I figured stage 1 wouldn't be an issue since its a documentation audit. I figure the real issue will be stage 2 , when they audit all the processes and showing evidence.

 

[jmsaunders21]

CB's used to offer preliminary assessments as "mock audits" so the organization had an idea how close/far they were from being "certifiable". Not sure if the IATF has prohibitions on these gap analysis type of audits these days, but if not, you could hire the CB to perform this assessment and, hopefully open the eyes of the site leaders with a reality check; just be aware that, and I am sure you are already aware, all the identified gaps to be closed could end up on your plate....

The more concerning bit of your situation is not compliance with a standard, but the apparent management lack of compatibility with modern quality management. That is impossible to fix.

How is your "quality performance" data from the customer's perspective?

Hi Sidney, in regards to "quality performance" - if your referring to customer complaints .. its was 47 SPPS in 2020. So its quite high. and 30 so far in 2021

 

[Jim Wynne]

Hi Sidney, in regards to "quality performance" - if your referring to customer complaints .. its was 47 SPPS in 2020. So its quite high. and 30 so far in 2021

What is "SPPS"?

 

[John C. Abnet]

Hello all, I am working as a QMS Coordinator at a new TIER one supplier to GM. They want to get certified to IATF at the end of 2022. There is ALOT of issues and I mean tons. Many missing requirements and on top of all that... top management could care less and thinks its stupid to get certified, a lot of them come from OEMs so i guess they don't have experience implementing a QMS to a standard. So basically my next idea is to bring to them the repercussions of not implementing the clauses. When the auditors come out for our stage 2, how many majors are we allowed to get ? What will happen if we are missing many of the clauses ? I want to explain to them that if we don't do this it will be a waste of the companies money and time. Anyone have experience at a company that was not willing to implement the standard and then wanted to get audited anyway? PLEASE HELP !!!!!!!

Good day @jmsaunders21 ;
Take a big breath. This too shall pass.

1- There is no "limit" to how many major nonconformances (or minors). However, in the Stage 1 audit (think of it as a scrimmage....score doesn't really count), the CB will let your organization know if it's simply not ready to proceed.
2- In regard to "missing the clauses"....Hmmm, I believe maybe it would be helpful for your organization (if not already) to seek some training and/or quality consulting to assist with understand the intent and approach of the standard. The ISO family and IATF have moved away from the "clause" approach and, for good reason, are now emphasizing the "Process Approach". If in your statement, about "missing the clauses" you are simply asking about having gaps wherein the requirements of the standard are not fulfilled, then this also will (should) be pointed out by your CB during the stage 1 audit ....at which time they may simply indicate that your organization is not ready to proceed.
3- As eluded to by other(s), one option offered by most CB,s is a "Pre-assessment". Think of this as an interschool scrimmage. They will perform an extremely truncated "'audit" and, while they can not consult by rule, they can point out areas of weakness / strength.

Summary:
A- Ensure your organization/teams...are well versed in the standard via training or a recognized consultant.
B- Perform your organization's own internal gap assessment. Remember, your organization is also required to have a complete "round" of internal audits and a management review on record. Those also should identify and correct gaps.
C- Consider having the CB perform a "pre-assessment" (e.g. practice. Cost is generally moderate.
D- Your CB will perform a stage 1. (e.g. scrimmage).
E- Your CB will perform a stage 2 (actual game), where score is now kept and report issued and corrective actions. i.e. "game on".


Hope this helps.
Be well.

 

[Randy]

How many Majors are you allowed during a certification audit (Stage 2)? The receipt of 1 will not allow a recommendation for certification so the answer is ZERO-"0"

Pre-certification audits are a freebie (you still pay for it though). Stage 1 Majors require corrective action to take them down to at least a minor. Common Stage 1 MAJOR's can be incomplete or no internal audit, management review, objectives and so on.

This is what I do everyday so I'm not guessing..........

Again...... ZERO-"0" MAJORS!!!!.... A Major means you still get the bill but not much more until fixed.

 

[jmsaunders21]

What is "SPPS"?

Customer complaints