How many nonconformances have you received on average during IATF audits?

How many nonconformances have you received on average during IATF audits


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    13

batteryguy

Involved In Discussions
I'm curious to know the average number of nonconformances issued by your CB during IATF audits. Over our first 3 year cycle we've received 6 (1 major) the first year, 2 minors the second year, and 1 minor the third year. The reason I ask is that at the end of our audit today our auditor surprised me with a minor nonconformance for an issue we had discussed with him earlier in the week. At the time of the original discussion he clearly stated it wasn't going to be a finding. While I appreciate that this one will be very easy for me to correct, I came away with the impression that the auditors had a "quota" and wrote this issue up to achieve it.
 

Johnny Quality

Quite Involved in Discussions
About 2 the last four years has been 4, 3 ,3 then 0 last time around.

If the auditor stated it wasn't going to be a "finding" then it wasn't going to be documented let alone a non conformance.

It was mentioned that auditors in AS9100 have non conformances per day as part of their performance monitoring, perhaps something similar lives in the confidential communiqués of the IATF.

This may have been incorporated into AS9104/3A, which was published 2020-11-11. I don't have a copy of the standard, but a slide from a September 2019 IAQG presentation on changes to AS9104/3 includes "Nonconformities per audit day" as part of new "Auditor Performance Monitoring" requirements:
View attachment 27442

Presentation:
https://iaqg.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/9104-3-Ballot-Draft-DSM-September-2019_Rev-2.pdf
 

batteryguy

Involved In Discussions
Was the nonconformance legitimate?

Mike, I could honestly argue either side for the finding being legitimate. If you asked me, "Does it add any value or in any way affect the quality we're sending to our customer?" you'd get a different answer from me. My beef is more about why on day one of the audit the auditor said, "not an issue", but on day 3 it is suddenly a finding. What changed over those 2 days? We didn't review the topic any further.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
Well, the auditor does have the right to change their mind after pondering it further, especially if they saw additional evidence as time went on.

Did the auditor spring it on you at the formal closing meeting, or "at the end of the day" before the closing meeting? I'd say there should be no surprises at the closing meeting. If it was brought up before the closing meeting that he/she changed their mind, and you agree the finding could be legit, I think that's okay.

JMO.
 

batteryguy

Involved In Discussions
Well, the auditor does have the right to change their mind after pondering it further, especially if they saw additional evidence as time went on.

Did the auditor spring it on you at the formal closing meeting, or "at the end of the day" before the closing meeting? I'd say there should be no surprises at the closing meeting. If it was brought up before the closing meeting that he/she changed their mind, and you agree the finding could be legit, I think that's okay.

JMO.
Mike, there was no discussion of it after the first day of the audit. I was surprised to see it show up as a finding at the closing meeting. As I said, I'm not really disputing the finding, rather that I'm perplexed that this became a finding after our initial discussion that it wouldn't be. I'm just curious to know if anyone else has had similar experiences.
 

batteryguy

Involved In Discussions
Are you able to share it with us?
Johnny,

The finding was against clause 4.4.1. The auditors objective evidence was, "Organization's QMS process does not contain any element of defined in process approach defined effectively. Outputs and KPIs of the process were not defined."

His point was in regards to a few processes identified on our process map in the support processes section (continuous improvement, document control, control of nonconforming product, record retention) that don't truly meet the ISO 9001 definition of a process. For all of our "real" processes (Sales, manufacturing, purchasing, etc.) we have the appropriate inputs, outputs, KPI's and so on documented.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
I have never been surprised with negative content, nonconformance or otherwise, at a closing meeting.
 
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