How much actual documentation is required on Shop Traveler and Documentation

[tasinquefield]

Hello all,

I have a question concerning shop travelers and documentation of procedures. I work for a tool & die welding and heat treating company, and we are implementing an ISO 9001 quality system.

How much actual documentation is required for what actually happens with each job in our shop? I noticed that some companies use a shop traveler, which then documents what work was done, materials used, process used, time into job, etc. Are these necessary for ISO 9001 certification? I didn't see anything about it being required, but i noticed they are used frequently.

While I like the idea of shop travelers, since each job has its own record and everything is on one piece of paper, it may be too difficult to implement in our shop since many jobs are in and out in 15 minutes. Some larger jobs may be here for weeks. Is it ok to use them for larger jobs only? Or does it have to be for all jobs? Right now, we don't really have any paperwork on what we did, except for the customer's paperwork and our shipper. For furnace jobs, we do provide to our customer and keep on file the chart recorder from the furnace, but for weld jobs we don't write down the welding process, wire used, etc. Time sheets are kept by each welder showing which jobs they worked on, however.

I'd like to have more accountability and records for what we do, but is it really necessary and worth the time?

Thanks,
Travis

 

[CarolX]

Re: Question on Shop Traveler and Documentation

Hi Travis and Welcome to the Cove -

What do you use as work instruction? Many job shops use travelers as work instructions for production personell. How the part is routed thru the shop, what operations are to be performed, what are the set-up and inspection requirements? In other words - what are the variables that must be controlled to produce the parts to customer specifications?

 

[tasinquefield]

Re: Question on Shop Traveler and Documentation

Thanks for the reply, Carol.

Right now, we don't really have work instructions. What we do is very specialized and is mostly based on trade secrets passed down through generations of training and experience, at least in terms of welding. The welders don't have a checklist to follow, such as: heat die to 800 degrees, use certain rod, hold at angle, etc. They wouldn't make sense, since they are all trained and experienced and know what to do. Plus, each job is different, all are custom repairs to customer's specifications.

In terms of process maps, we created some that shows the primary supporting processes (welding and heat treating). The welding shows quoting-->shipping/receiving-->weigh and hardness check--> and so on.

My question is more concerned with documenting what we do. Do I need to have a record for each job showing who the welder is, how much time into the job, what welding rod/reel was used, and the process used (MIG, TIG, arc, etc.)? Right now we just have the time sheets, but everything else is pretty much kept in the head of the plant manager. A lot of what we do is standardized, so if we know a job is a P-20 mold (plastic injection mold), we know the type of rod it requires, but we haven't documented that.

Thanks.

 

[al40]

Re: Question on Shop Traveler and Documentation

I would suggest that you document as much as possible as long as you and your organization thinks that it adds value.

Ask yourself, what would happen if the person that had important information or "Tribal Knowledge" of a particular operation that wasn't written down or part of a know standard quit or won the lottery?

I know from past experiences that you should document critical processes so that you have the information for future references.

Regards,

al40

 

[CarolX]

Re: Question on Shop Traveler and Documentation

My question is more concerned with documenting what we do. Do I need to have a record for each job showing who the welder is, how much time into the job, what welding rod/reel was used, and the process used (MIG, TIG, arc, etc.)? Right now we just have the time sheets, but everything else is pretty much kept in the head of the plant manager. A lot of what we do is standardized, so if we know a job is a P-20 mold (plastic injection mold), we know the type of rod it requires, but we haven't documented that.

Really - only you can answer that questions. Sounds like you do real custom work, with no two jobs the same.

So you have process maps that show the general operations. How does anyone know all the operations to perform on a particlular job? Can those be documented in some way?

On your repeat jobs, like your example of P-20, document as much as you can - but also leave yourself some room for flexiblity.

For example - you could have a traveler that says

inspect unit for repair estimate
submit to customer
complete repair
inspect
ship to customer

Keep it simple and written in the language (wording) that everyone understands.

 

[tasinquefield]

Re: Question on Shop Traveler and Documentation

Thanks for the replies, CarolX and al40. I guess we'll have to sit down and figure out what we need. I need more than what we have at this point, since "it's all in the plant manager's head" isn't going to work when it comes to audit time.

Carol, we can document some things, but again everything is custom. Yes, there are certain procedures to follow for welding, like making sure the mold is heated, the gas pressure is set correctly, voltage set properly on the welder, etc. but they aren't documented.

 

[Benjamin28]

I have to agree, tribal knowledge that is critical to operations needs documentation. On a further note though, work/traveler instructions are not only instructions, often they prove to be a system for maintaining efficient interaction between processes, and fluid flow of production.

For instance, our travelers are computerized, in this manner our production manager can look up any in process job and see what process it is in, how long its been there, who did the work, etc...when one process is completed the technician enters in the relevant data and forwards it to the next step, a lot of information is gained from this activity and it also allows us to better determine bottlenecks and quickly access an audit trail for a specific job or jobs.

At the same time the technicians can access the traveler and are supplied with specific information, special requirements, material hazards, purchase order info, relevant blueprints/dwgs, etc. It is a very effective system for controlling the flow of work and supplying staff with the information necessary to complete the job.

 

[CliffK]

Travis,

What problem are you trying to solve?
To put it another way, why is your company contemplating ISO 9001?

Hello all,

How much actual documentation is required for what actually happens with each job in our shop?

Interesting question. At a minimum, you're going to need some inspection/test/verification record for the product. Even for the fifteen minute jobs. Ref 8.2.4. Search through ISO 9001 for references to 4.2.4 - each of those references indicates the requirement for a quality record.

I noticed that some companies use a shop traveler, which then documents what work was done, materials used, process used, time into job, etc. Are these necessary for ISO 9001 certification? I didn't see anything about it being required, but i noticed they are used frequently.

They're not required.

While I like the idea of shop travelers, since each job has its own record and everything is on one piece of paper, it may be too difficult to implement in our shop since many jobs are in and out in 15 minutes. Some larger jobs may be here for weeks. Is it ok to use them for larger jobs only? Or does it have to be for all jobs?

Either way is okay. If you elect to go the large job only route, you will need to set up rules for deciding which jobs get travelers and which don't. I'm not sure they're the right answer for you.

I'd like to have more accountability and records for what we do, but is it really necessary and worth the time?
Travis

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

Right now, we don't really have work instructions. What we do is very specialized and is mostly based on trade secrets passed down through generations of training and experience, at least in terms of welding. The welders don't have a checklist to follow, such as: heat die to 800 degrees, use certain rod, hold at angle, etc. They wouldn't make sense, since they are all trained and experienced and know what to do. Plus, each job is different, all are custom repairs to customer's specifications.

The question is, "how do they know how to do what they do?" It can be answered by detailed work instructions or it can be answered by training, experience and competence. For the latter answer, you will need to have records substantiating the welders' qualifications. Ref 6.2 of ISO 9001:2000.

For guidance on the amount of documentation needed for ISO 9001:2000, check note 2 under 4.2.1. Not much help, is it? But it does tell you that there's no cookie cutter answer.

It goes back to what you are trying to accomplish. If you are concerned about capturing the knowledge of the old greybeards (as you should be), then by all means drain their brains and get it on paper.